Freedom campers

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="567751" data-time="1459119806">
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the vans look like shit on the whole. They look like they spent the week parked up in the ghetts of LA or South Auckland, tagged to shit.
They are just a fucking eye sore. Im sure they are popular with freedom campers (aka parasites) but from reports overseas families use them too. Why would you ?
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Price. They are cheap
 
About 2/3s the cost of an equivalent 'Spacehip' camper and if you look at at the Wicked website they look quite tidy with no sign of offensive slogans just comic like graphic art.
 
Plenty of families probably being quite shocked with what they go to pick up.

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="567693" data-time="1459103775">
Can you post a link to that? I saw a story about that last week and the maths looked a bit messed up.</blockquote>
 <a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78139668/freedom-campers-spend-more-but-stay-longer-than-other-tourists">http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/78139668/freedom-campers-spend-more-but-stay-longer-than-other-tourists</a> 
Basically, they stay a lot longer than average, so they spend more. The figures are from MBIE (Immigration NZ is part of MBIE), so are likely to be reasonably accurate.

antipodean

How are they getting their hands on the credit card data?

jegga

Their per day spend is down on other tourists , so basically they stay longer , spend less per day than the tourists we actually want and they shit wherever they feel like it. 
What's the upside to these parasites again ?

taniwharugby

I would say the Credit card data would be easy for them to get information on*, it is differentiating the freedom campers vs the normal tourists that is more difficult IMO.
 
Mastercard/Visa would be able to show which credit cards that originated in the UK, and spent in NZ, without any names or details other than this card spent $6000 in 6 weeks, I doubt Visa/Mastercard are breaching any privacy by providing that data??

Virgil

You have to be fucken dreaming if you think these Freedom campers are contributing more or even equal to the the average Visitor in NZ. The same visitor that shells out $200 + per night to stay at hotels etc. That comes over with $1000's of disposable income to blow on Merino slippers.
 
Those turds that park up for free, do their washing, shit and brush their teeth in our streams and on our roads are probably costing more money (Clean up costs etc)
 
If Freedom Campers were banned from entering our country tomorrow ill wager one of my nuts the total Tourism income for the next 12 months wouldnt even fucken drop a single %.
 
The sooner they fuck off and Wicked Campers along with them (2 problems, one fix) the better.

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="567800" data-time="1459128244">
I would say the Credit card data would be easy for them to get information on*, it is differentiating the freedom campers vs the normal tourists that is more difficult IMO. 
Mastercard/Visa would be able to show which credit cards that originated in the UK, and spent in NZ, without any names or details other than this card spent $6000 in 6 weeks, I doubt Visa/Mastercard are breaching any privacy by providing that data??</blockquote>
 
Easier than it sounds - if normal tourists purchase accommodation, then freedom campers are the foreign credit cards with no or minimal accommodation purchases. It's not perfect, but it's a reasonable proxy. Paymark can also provide the info, and as long as they scrub the identity information, it's fine (there are two exemptions to the Privacy Act that apply - releasing info for statistical and research purposes, and, arguably, protection of public revenue). 
Also, to get into NZ, the tourists have to show evidence of $1000 per month ($6000 for Brits, $3000 for the rest) plus a return ticket at the border, so they have to have funds available, even if they don't necessarily spend it on accommodation.

Donsteppa

So people who stay with family in NZ would potentially be classed as freedom campers (for that financial analysis)...? 
Cruise ship passengers too potentially - under that rough proxy.

No Quarter

The cruise ship tourists are big spenders. I am sure many of the high end shops on Queen St would not survive without them.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Virgil" data-cid="567806" data-time="1459132035">
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You have to be fucken dreaming if you think these Freedom campers are contributing more or even equal to the the average Visitor in NZ. The same visitor that shells out $200 + per night to stay at hotels etc. That comes over with $1000's of disposable income to blow on Merino slippers.
 
Those turds that park up for free, do their washing, shit and brush their teeth in our streams and on our roads are probably costing more money (Clean up costs etc)
 
If Freedom Campers were banned from entering our country tomorrow ill wager one of my nuts the total Tourism income for the next 12 months wouldnt even fucken drop a single %.
 
The sooner they fuck off and Wicked Campers along with them (2 problems, one fix) the better.
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Likely because their actual numbers are really low - as I mentioned from the Radiolive report above.

Bones

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Godder" data-cid="567930" data-time="1459191214">
Also, to get into NZ, the tourists have to show evidence of $1000 per month ($6000 for Brits, $3000 for the rest) plus a return ticket at the border, so they have to have funds available, even if they don't necessarily spend it on accommodation.</blockquote>
 
I never knew this and haven't seen it in action. The Mrs hasn't been asked for anything other than a passport and address.

Crucial

Some folk here pretty keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Young backpacker type tourists not only sustain some of the more out of the way towns in NZ (which has all round benefits in many ways for all of us) but they are the prime candidates for spreading the tourist word through social media, word of mouth and will most likely return many years later with much more cash.
 
To make their trip work and to spread their $ further (NZ is pretty quick to try and fleece tourists every which way) they will sometimes pull up for the night in their semi self contained vehicles to sleep. The majority take a dump at the nearest publicly available toilet and don't leave rubbish behind.
 
Yes there are obviously some bad eggs just taking advantage and not caring at all. How about looking for ways to clamp down on them rather than lump everyone in together?

Godder

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="568209" data-time="1459254619"> 
I never knew this and haven't seen it in action. The Mrs hasn't been asked for anything other than a passport and address.</blockquote>
 
It only applies to people travelling to NZ on the visa waiver programme, and normally gets checked prior to boarding rather than checking at this end. People who apply for visas prior to travel show it with their application, so don't have to show it again when travelling. It doesn't apply to citizens or residents, which include Aussie citizens and returning residents. 
Best way to check the spending would be to generate a profile based on typical features (spending in multiple regions with no accommodation or internal flights would be a likely profile), and then look for/at spending data that matches the profile. Like I said, not perfect, but a reasonable proxy.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568233" data-time="1459279538">
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Some folk here pretty keen to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Young backpacker type tourists not only sustain some of the more out of the way towns in NZ (which has all round benefits in many ways for all of us) but they are the prime candidates for spreading the tourist word through social media, word of mouth and will most likely return many years later with much more cash.
 
To make their trip work and to spread their $ further (NZ is pretty quick to try and fleece tourists every which way) they will sometimes pull up for the night in their semi self contained vehicles to sleep. The majority take a dump at the nearest publicly available toilet and don't leave rubbish behind.
 
Yes there are obviously some bad eggs just taking advantage and not caring at all. How about looking for ways to clamp down on them rather than lump everyone in together?
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</blockquote>
 
Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers?
 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"...
 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :)
 
* yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are..

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568426" data-time="1459309521">Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers? 
 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"... 
 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :) 
 * yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are.. </blockquote>
 
Getting the word out on lonely planet etc that if a local council catches you treating our country like a giant toilet they are going to fine you and when you try and leave customs aren't going to let you leave until you've paid would probably sort the behaviour out pretty quickly .

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568426" data-time="1459309521">Who was equating all "young backpacker tourist types" as freedom campers? 
Plenty of backpackers locally, but only a small quantity of "ferals"... 
About the only thing lumping everyone in together is Godder's proxy* :) * yes, acknowledging how difficult these things are.. </blockquote>
 
But you are equating all freedom campers as ferals. My guess is that it is about 10% that are the problem.

Donsteppa

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="568439" data-time="1459317442">But you are equating all freedom campers as ferals. My guess is that it is about 10% that are the problem.</blockquote>
 
The vast majority of backpacker 'types' I see around here are in backpacker hostels or in caravan parks/camping grounds. 
Of the small number who are parked up at the beach for free, I...

Would be amazed if they were somehow worth more than the average tourist/backpacker
Would not be surprised if there are a few Kiwis in the mix
Couldn't care less what the "feral" to "freedom camper" ratio is amongst them... I struggle to see much value in it, no matter how convoluted a credit card spend formula we create. 
But, if there's no mess, then no fuss. 
If there is mess, then moving it along won't be the end of the world, nor will it "throw the baby out with the bath water" or somehow harm the high value end of the tourism sector.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Donsteppa" data-cid="568444" data-time="1459318506">
<div>
The vast majority of backpacker 'types' I see around here are in backpacker hostels or in caravan parks/camping grounds. 
Of the small number who are parked up at the beach for free, I...

Would be amazed if they were somehow worth more than the average tourist/backpacker
Would not be surprised if there are a few Kiwis in the mix
Couldn't care less what the "feral" to "freedom camper" ratio is amongst them... I struggle to see much value in it, no matter how convoluted a credit card spend formula we create. 
But, if there's no mess, then no fuss. 
If there is mess, then moving it along won't be the end of the world, nor will it "throw the baby out with the bath water" or somehow harm the high value end of the tourism sector.
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This. 
 
Edit, yet another story today. They don't even use the toilets that are provided <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/78339597/Locals-move-on-freedom-campers-in-South-Taranaki'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/78339597/Locals-move-on-freedom-campers-in-South-Taranaki</a>

Godder

Ultimately, we want their money, and we want the total spend, not the daily spend. The numbers say freedom campers stay substantially longer then average, so although their daily spend isn't that high, they drop the most money in NZ before they leave.

jegga

Ultimately we want big spending tourists , parasites whos daily spend is minimal aren't the ones we should targeting . People who stay in hotels , eat at restaurants and drop loads of cash on tourist orientated crap are the ones we want. Freedom campers are at the very lowest rung on the ladder and we shouldn't be encouraging them at all.

The Silver Fern

Freedom campers