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@snowy said in Climate Change:
@gt12 said in Climate Change:
What's the name of the doco?
I would really like to avoid it too.
I'm happy to have my stereotype about her challenged, although it may be a tough sell.
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@snowy What surprises me; given that every 16 year old ever has always been the font of all wisdom, is why she was given the oxygen that she was?
Don't want to shoot the messenger (no really) but why did she become such a thing? Says everything about modern society that a smug, self satisfied, clearly manipulated nobody with nothing but a well oiled media campaign was able to berate the world and gain so much traction.
It genuinely bemuses me.
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@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@snowy What surprises me; given that every 16 year old ever has always been the font of all wisdom, is why she was given the oxygen that she was?
Don't want to shoot the messenger (no really) but why did she become such a thing? Says everything about modern society that a smug, self satisfied, clearly manipulated nobody with nothing but a well oiled media campaign was able to berate the world and gain so much traction.
It genuinely bemuses me.
how dare you!
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@mariner4life said in Climate Change:
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@snowy What surprises me; given that every 16 year old ever has always been the font of all wisdom, is why she was given the oxygen that she was?
Don't want to shoot the messenger (no really) but why did she become such a thing? Says everything about modern society that a smug, self satisfied, clearly manipulated nobody with nothing but a well oiled media campaign was able to berate the world and gain so much traction.
It genuinely bemuses me.
how dare you!
I'm a pale male middle aged boomer responsible for all the worlds ills.
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@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
@snowy What surprises me; given that every 16 year old ever has always been the font of all wisdom, is why she was given the oxygen that she was?
Don't want to shoot the messenger (no really) but why did she become such a thing? Says everything about modern society that a smug, self satisfied, clearly manipulated nobody with nothing but a well oiled media campaign was able to berate the world and gain so much traction.
It genuinely bemuses me.
Just a guess, but I take it that you are in the former category from my post?
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
every 16 year old ever
Minor spelling issue there - it is "evaaa".
@dogmeat said in Climate Change:
I'm a pale male middle aged boomer responsible for all the worlds ills.
Well at least one of you is owning up to it.
I'm only one generation away and accepting no responsibility for any of it. -
@gt12 - it was episode 2 of this
Let me start off by saying that I've been as skeptical of her as anybody else - hell, I'm 43 and use more hydrocarbons in the interest of pleasure than most people.
But I have vastly under-rated her. I don't necessarily agree with everything she says, but she is undoubtedly a very special human. Here are some key points
- She has some serious serious guts about her. Physically, she's absolutely tiny, she doesn't like crowds and look at what she's achieved. She was asked about meeting Trump & she said "I'll have to be polite of course, but I'm not sure I can be kind" - or something like that.
- Her direct speech is actually very thought out and articulated. She uses her time to get straight to the point & get her message across. Yes, this does come across as angry teenager at times, but this angry teenager is prepared to do this in front of all world leaders. You cannot underestimate that.
- She engages with the opposite side. In the documentary last night she visited a Polish coal mine which is being shut down to talk. You could see she had real empathy with them & didn't preach to them. Just listened and then talked about it. She's obviously a left icon, but you don't see that so much any more from the hard left media.
- She is 100% genuine. You never get the ideas that the hoodies / angry faces / tears are stage managed in any way. Comparing her interview to Markle is like day & night.
I don't agree with all she says. But it's also no accident she became the icon that she is.
My wife and I were genuinely gobsmacked at what we saw.
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@snowy said in Climate Change:
@majorrage Excellent. I'll have a look, thanks. I wasn't quite sure if you were being facetious or not. I take the piss so often on here that I assume that everybody is. More than happy to have a look and see what they say.
Yeah, just read my original post. It does look rather facetious, especially given it came from me.
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Hi
Long time reader, first time poster (in this thread). This is probably a huge mistake but
The IPCC this week released a new report. It was very alarmy, with some new predictions, and none of them were good. I have not read it in its entirety, so don't go looking for detail and shit. What i am interested in is a discussion. I am scientifically illiterate (like a lot of areas i guess) so I'm interested in the opinions of others, some more qualified, some more widely read, but hey, i'll take the educated and un-educated guessers as well.
There is a climate conference later in the year where a bunch of leaders will turn up and make nice noises about doing things, but really pander to who pays the bills, because that is modern society (shit, human society) in a nutshell.
I gotta few questions:
Does it matter if countries like NZ, or Aus, or even the US say they will reduce their carbon output, if they biggest way they are doing it is by offloading their manufacturing to other countries? The factory cities of china are fucking disgusting on a good day.
Does it really do anything if we guilt individuals in to completely changing their lifestyle or the climate is doomed? Or in all reality do we need to look at the larger end of private enterprise?
Is it too late to really do anything, and would it be better to put our minds to tech our way out of this?
why does the climate argument always feel like rich countries telling poor countries to do better, while all the while extracting everything they can from them?I hate that the solution to this always revolved around giving the government more money. That money is not going in to environmental research, it's going in to middle class welfare. And that's where i get the shits with the "great climate debate"
Barnaby Joyce, the lunatic deputy-PM here got hammered for what i thought was a decent point (well, half decent, he missed the key follow up) when he said it wsn't the Government's job to solve the climate crisis, it was the CSIRO etc. Good point Barnaby, i doubt you could solve a crossword. BUT, the important point was, you are supposed to provide the leadership and the funding to drive that solution.
Actually, follow up question. Where is private enterprise in all of this?
Can we play nice?
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@mariner4life said in Climate Change:
Where is private enterprise in all of this?
Lots of good questions. That one is easy - making money with complete disregard for the environment and climate change which is why it is the governments job to do exactly as you said - provide the leadership, "some" regulation, and funding to solve, or at least mitigate it.
Won't go into all of it now, but yes the more modern countries have done the damage and want the others to pay for it in some regards.
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@snowy said in Climate Change:
but yes the more modern countries have done the damage and want the others to pay for it in some regards
How? China the biggest CO2 outputer (or carbon polluter) is exempt from most of the reductions. And the money will come from the wealthier countries
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Corporations need incentives to shift the needle - just like coal and other fossil fuels are incentivised right now (despite being long-established technologies) and renewables were heavily to get them into their startup phase, before starting to dial down.
Those incentives can only really come from regulators and governments.
Where your own government can't create incentives, others might make them so you shift your manufacturing/corporate base, or they might simply start penalising you for operating inside a certain nation e.g. carbon trade tariffs.
While our government screeches about European plans for carbon trading hurting us, they could easily sink a few billion into transmission upgrades to allow the market to come in with zero-incentive wind and solar to easily meet our needs, and make us more competitive on the international stage.
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Let's be clear: China is a massive producer of emissions and need to continue their change of direction. But what is also clear is they are shifting their internal economy hugely toward electrification. Last year they were about 30% renewable (hydro, wind, solar, biomass) and that makes them easily the largest producer of renewable energy in the world (a bit over 2 TWh). Hydro is the big brother, and of course raises questions over environmental damage and land use.
While they've double their energy hunger in the last decade, they've also made massive strides in energy efficiency - last time I checked, China's avoided electricity consumption was greater than any other nation's renewables output per annum.
How this will be affected by their increasing electrification of transport will be interesting, particularly if they start using EVs to help balance their demand curve.
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@nta What i don't understand is how our agriculture industry is deemed to be CO2 positive when all the feed grown consumes CO2 making it a closed loop. I understand Methane is slightly more potent as a Heat absorber so maybe this is the main kicker but its still seems overstated that such a grass fed agricultural system can be deemed a problem.
I have big issues with water pollution (Cities and Farms) and water usage especially in areas like Canturbury plains that should have been controlled a lot better (less dairy farming /irrigation allowed there) and this is where i believe NZ should focus its efforts. The carbon issue should be secondary or considered only on a power production manner until the water problems are fixed.
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@nta said in Climate Change:
Let's be clear: China is a massive producer of emissions and need to continue their change of direction. But what is also clear is they are shifting their internal economy hugely toward electrification. Last year they were about 30% renewable (hydro, wind, solar, biomass) and that makes them easily the largest producer of renewable energy in the world (a bit over 2 TWh). Hydro is the big brother, and of course raises questions over environmental damage and land use.
While they've double their energy hunger in the last decade, they've also made massive strides in energy efficiency - last time I checked, China's avoided electricity consumption was greater than any other nation's renewables output per annum.
How this will be affected by their increasing electrification of transport will be interesting, particularly if they start using EVs to help balance their demand curve.
China is fucking weird... but probably just because they're so pragmatic... renewable where it's possible, fucking churn through metric-fuck-tonnes of coal where it's not.
Just anecdotally, within a week I saw the two extremes...- We weren't allowed to ride our bikes up to Everest Base Camp, as they'd set up a carpark about 10km downhill - and the only way tourists could go any further, was in a nice electric bus. They wouldn't even take a bribe to allow us to ride up, because "the principle of the thing".
- All across Tibet, there were billboards about "keep the planet clean and green" and that sort of thing
- A few days later, riding through Shanxi, or Shaanxi - or maybe both... 99% of the traffic on the road was big fucking trucks... carting coal. That is no exaggeration - easily 99% of the traffic. I've got a video somewhere of me "filtering" through two lanes of trucks queued up... all full of coal - and all at a stand-still. It does on for about 10 minutes... there was a fucking queue of coal-trucks, dual-lane, for several kilometres. And in the lanes going in opposite direction? The same constant stream of empty trucks, but not at a stand-still, just merrily going on their way to pick up more filth.
- And then, you get to the outskirts of some random fucking huge city that nobody's ever heard of, and you come across the destination, a ma...fucking...assive coal-fired powerplant, with those same trucks queued up outside.
- The scale was mind-blowing. And the roads and surroundings - just filthy in coal-dust...
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@winger Given the western nations have been contributing slowly (and unknowingly for most of the time) to climate change since the industrial revolution it's a bit rich to say sorry Mr 3rd World you can't have a refrigerator.
Everyone can make an excuse we're just little ol NZ nothing we do will make a difference but it's all self serving BS. Everyone has an individual and collective responsibility to do their bit.
I walk to the pub now
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@muddyriver said in Climate Change:
What i don't understand is how our agriculture industry is deemed to be CO2 positive when all the feed grown consumes CO2 making it a closed loop. I understand Methane is slightly more potent as a Heat absorber so maybe this is the main kicker but its still seems overstated that such a grass fed agricultural system can be deemed a problem.
Thanks God I lived through the good old days when travel was easy. And cows farting and burbing didn't destroy the planet. Instead of the hell we are now entering
Climate Change