Coronavirus - UK
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The other thing is that my vaccine status shows up on the NHS app (not to be confused with the nhs Covid app). Originally we were told that this would only appear once both doses were complete, but mine is on there and currently I’ve only had one dose.
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
The low take up of the vaccines amongst BAME communities is something that we’ve been aware of for sometime but little seems to be getting done to correct this.
What needs to be done? High risk groups (BAME included) have been prioritised in lots of areas during the pandemic, for example their chronic health reviews have been prioritised in an attempt to engage the BAME groups in particular and uptake there has been good from our part of UK, flu jabs also but not the covid vaccine. In our CCG we've had a number of mosques hosting vaccine centres, you'd think that would be encouraging but you can't make someone have it and we shouldn't have to spoon feed information to people, its been accessible to anyone who can turn on a tv.
Edit:I'm grumpy
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@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
What needs to be done?
A good start might be calling it out for what it is: large groups of people of certain ethnicity whose selfishness and stupidity is risking the lives of others. No different to the successful calling out the groups of predominantly white people who refused MMR for their kids, risking the return of rubella.
Some communities have done great stuff challenging the negativity around the vaccine. Others have done bugger-all.
Edit:I'm grumpy
You're not an old man so it doesn't count.
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@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
The low take up of the vaccines amongst BAME communities is something that we’ve been aware of for sometime but little seems to be getting done to correct this.
What needs to be done? High risk groups (BAME included) have been prioritised in lots of areas during the pandemic, for example their chronic health reviews have been prioritised in an attempt to engage the BAME groups in particular and uptake there has been good from our part of UK, flu jabs also but not the covid vaccine. In our CCG we've had a number of mosques hosting vaccine centres, you'd think that would be encouraging but you can't make someone have it and we shouldn't have to spoon feed information to people, its been accessible to anyone who can turn on a tv.
Edit:I'm grumpy
Grumpiness excused.
I'm sure that there is lots being done small scale, at local surgeries, I'm more thinking that more should be done on a general level to engage with the sectors of the community that have poor take up. Quite how or what is way above my pay grade though.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
What needs to be done?
A good start might be calling it out for what it is: large groups of people of certain ethnicity whose selfishness and stupidity is risking the lives of others. No different to the successful calling out the groups of predominantly white people who refused MMR for their kids, risking the return of rubella.
Some communities have done great stuff challenging the negativity around the vaccine. Others have done bugger-all.
Edit:I'm grumpy
You're not an old man so it doesn't count.
It is different mate. For one thing children aren't at risk. We all know that.
I think it's just people who trust family and community more than government. That's always been the Asian way.
I've no problem with your point of view but don't think selfishness and stupidity is a fair appraisal. -
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
It is different mate. For one thing children aren't at risk. We all know that.
I think it's just people who trust family and community more than government. That's always been the Asian way.
I've no problem with your point of view but don't think selfishness and stupidity is a fair appraisal.Covid kills children too - it may be 1 in 750 compared to the adult population but that's still a lot of deaths.
And it isn't just Asian folks, it's across a wide spectrum of BAME. Community leaders have stepped up to the mark, the government has gone out of it's way to meet concerns and still we get a low take up which will, in effect, kill people in those communities and others who don't share their beliefs.
So, yeah, I think it pretty dumb to ignore all the evidence put in front of you and a bit selfish to endanger others lives because of that.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
It is different mate. For one thing children aren't at risk. We all know that.
I think it's just people who trust family and community more than government. That's always been the Asian way.
I've no problem with your point of view but don't think selfishness and stupidity is a fair appraisal.Covid kills children too - it may be 1 in 750 compared to the adult population but that's still a lot of deaths.
And it isn't just Asian folks, it's across a wide spectrum of BAME. Community leaders have stepped up to the mark, the government has gone out of it's way to meet concerns and still we get a low take up which will, in effect, kill people in those communities and others who don't share their beliefs.
So, yeah, I think it pretty dumb to ignore all the evidence put in front of you and a bit selfish to endanger others lives because of that.
It does annoy me when people gloss over the mortality risk of covid19, easy to rationalise about it being for the greater good to loosen everything off. But in practice it just isn't that simple when you are seen to be letting people face death when you could have done something.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
It does annoy me when people gloss over the mortality risk of covid19, easy to rationalise about it being for the greater good to loosen everything off.
I forget the figures, but unemployment causes a really big number of premature deaths and illness as well.
I think there's a balance between Covid mortality and opening up the economy which is a really difficult call and I don't envy the politicians who have to make that decision.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
It does annoy me when people gloss over the mortality risk of covid19, easy to rationalise about it being for the greater good to loosen everything off.
I forget the figures, but unemployment causes a really big number of premature deaths and illness as well.
I think there's a balance between Covid mortality and opening up the economy which is a really difficult call and I don't envy the politicians who have to make that decision.
I agree. There are no easy decisions. It is not a zero sum game. But seeing the news every night with pictures of dying people in packed hospitals and bodies everywhere is not good for morale either
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Of course, being in NZ I am biased, and we have been far from perfect, but full blown lockdown was painful. But at least it was relatively short by global standards at 6 weeks. Get things cleaned up and hit outbreaks hard when they come. Economically in NZ, apart from tourism mainly, the economy has been very strong in 2020
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@r-l said in Coronavirus - UK:
What needs to be done?
A good start might be calling it out for what it is: large groups of people of certain ethnicity whose selfishness and stupidity is risking the lives of others. No different to the successful calling out the groups of predominantly white people who refused MMR for their kids, risking the return of rubella.
Some communities have done great stuff challenging the negativity around the vaccine. Others have done bugger-all.
Edit:I'm grumpy
You're not an old man so it doesn't count.
It is different mate. For one thing children aren't at risk. We all know that.
I think it's just people who trust family and community more than government. That's always been the Asian way.
I've no problem with your point of view but don't think selfishness and stupidity is a fair appraisal.I think selfishness and stupidity couldn't be more spot on.
I can understand where the lack of trust in government could cause this, but there is a myriad of other avenues in the UK where you can learn that you should / must get vaccinated. In my view, if you live here, then it's your duty to the country and what it's been through to get vaccinated. BAME leaders are unanimous in their projection of the requirement for vaccination. BAME Dr's the same thing. If you aren't prepared to get vaccinated, then you have absolutely no right to take up an NHS bed if you get seriously sick.
It's selfish, and it's stupid.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - UK:
Of course, being in NZ I am biased, and we have been far from perfect, but full blown lockdown was painful. But at least it was relatively short by global standards at 6 weeks. Get things cleaned up and hit outbreaks hard when they come. Economically in NZ, apart from tourism mainly, the economy has been very strong in 2020
Really? Has NZ done ok? I don't remember reading a single thing about that anywhere.
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@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Neither are you under any obligation to listen to or adhere to someone who thinks you are stupid and selfish. I think you're stupid. What happens next?
There's a lot of this on the fern (bogan names etc) and I'm always bemused at how serious people take their judgements of others. So much self importance. Characteristics of a safety first society i guess🙂
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Neither are you under any obligation to listen to or adhere to someone who thinks you are stupid and selfish. I think you're stupid. What happens next?
There's a lot of this on the fern (bogan names etc) and I'm always bemused at how serious people take their judgements of others. So much self importance. Characteristics of a safety first society i guess🙂
Did irony ever cross your mind about feeling superior when writing the above?
People that make selfish and stupid decisions aren't always stupid and selfish. There's quite a difference there which you may wish to ponder if you'd like to take this debate forwards.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Not wanting to get into a you're right and I'm wrong debate here.
I take your point about pejoratives, but seems to me that after all the efforts made to dispel concerns, it's a pretty reasonable argument to make that people knowingly and deliberately risking their lives and others are stupid and selfish and should be called out for it.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated against has killed north of 120k people.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage nah, you win. This isn't a debate about making a situation better, it's a debate that you're right and your wishes override another person's decision about what to put into their own body.
Nobody wins when people don't get vaccinated, get sick and then infect others.
I'm not forcing anybody to do anything. I'm simply saying people are making selfish, and on the back of all the research/commentary about the safety of vaccines, and stupid decisions.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage as I said, I understand your position but calling people stupid or any perjoratives is an exercise in futility. It's just something you do to make yourself feel superior. No one is under any obligation to give a fuck what you think. You simply have no authority or a positive effect.
Not wanting to get into a you're right and I'm wrong debate here.
I take your point about pejoratives, but seems to me that after all the efforts made to dispel concerns, it's a pretty reasonable argument to make that people knowingly and deliberately risking their lives and others are stupid and selfish and should be called out for it.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated against has killed north of 120k people.
Maybe their pertinent statistic is 4.3 million who have recovered. Maybe they aren't in the at risk group for age and physical health. I don't agree that they think they are risking their lives at all.
Particularly when the virus they are refusing to get vaccinated for has been successfully countered by 99% of natural immune systems.
I know mate. You don't see a drastic risk in motorcycling and I don't see a drastic risk in covid. That's all the difference is.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
Nobody wins when people don't get vaccinated, get sick and then infect others.
The only thing I think when I see that is - aren't others getting vaccinated anyway and won't get sick? If they're infecting others, aren't those just others that didn't get vaccinated also? Or am I being dim as usual.
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
You don't see a drastic risk in motorcycling and I don't see a drastic risk in covid. That's all the difference is.
You didn't think of ANY of the ways where this comparison would be laughed at?
And @Victor-Meldrew & @MajorRage - come on guys, you see there's no point in debating this. You're using logic vs a religion. When has that ever worked?