Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@windows97 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's also important to note that the vaccinations doesn't stop you from getting covid, it makes you less sick and less likely to pass it and less likely to die.
Even with 100% vaccination rate people will still get covid...that air hostess, both jabs, fully immunized but still got the delta variant.
Long term unless we are willing to take some level of covid infection in the community and invest in our medical resources to be able to cope with that level of infection we are going to spend the rest of our lives with borders practicality closed and going from lockdown to lockdown.
Look I'm certainly not an anit-vaxer, am very much for vaccinations, but we all get vaccinated - great!! Then what? Wait on tenderhooks as a closed island community for another level 4 lockdown that will surely come...that seems to be our plan.
The elimination strategy is only going to work if covid is eliminated pretty much world wide - can anyone see that happening in their lifetime?
If we are all vaccinated, and it means we don't end up seriously or fatally ill, I expect travel to open up albeit with some residual restrictions. Cindy said as much. But as far as the around Europe/ USA/ Asia etc family holiday is concerned, it might be some time before we can live that jetset life again
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@windows97 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's also important to note that the vaccinations doesn't stop you from getting covid, it makes you less sick and less likely to pass it and less likely to die.
Even with 100% vaccination rate people will still get covid...that air hostess, both jabs, fully immunized but still got the delta variant.
Long term unless we are willing to take some level of covid infection in the community and invest in our medical resources to be able to cope with that level of infection we are going to spend the rest of our lives with borders practicality closed and going from lockdown to lockdown.
Look I'm certainly not an anit-vaxer, am very much for vaccinations, but we all get vaccinated - great!! Then what? Wait on tenderhooks as a closed island community for another level 4 lockdown that will surely come...that seems to be our plan.
The elimination strategy is only going to work if covid is eliminated pretty much world wide - can anyone see that happening in their lifetime?
If we are all vaccinated, and it means we don't end up seriously or fatally ill, I expect travel to open up albeit with some residual restrictions. Cindy said as much. But as far as the around Europe/ USA/ Asia etc family holiday is concerned, it might be some time before we can live that jetset life again
Restrictions that we currently have for the flu? Any politician attempting to make an argument for continued restrictions in your life post vaccination is taking the piss.
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@windows97 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's also important to note that the vaccinations doesn't stop you from getting covid, it makes you less sick and less likely to pass it and less likely to die.
Even with 100% vaccination rate people will still get covid...that air hostess, both jabs, fully immunized but still got the delta variant.
Long term unless we are willing to take some level of covid infection in the community and invest in our medical resources to be able to cope with that level of infection we are going to spend the rest of our lives with borders practicality closed and going from lockdown to lockdown.
Look I'm certainly not an anit-vaxer, am very much for vaccinations, but we all get vaccinated - great!! Then what? Wait on tenderhooks as a closed island community for another level 4 lockdown that will surely come...that seems to be our plan.
The elimination strategy is only going to work if covid is eliminated pretty much world wide - can anyone see that happening in their lifetime?
If we are all vaccinated, and it means we don't end up seriously or fatally ill, I expect travel to open up albeit with some residual restrictions. Cindy said as much. But as far as the around Europe/ USA/ Asia etc family holiday is concerned, it might be some time before we can live that jetset life again
Logically speaking could you please explain to me how the "it might be some time" is going to work for things to get back to normal. Not being a smart-ass but a genuine question. I can't really see how time is going to fix this.
And my fears aren't just I'll never be able to get on a plane and fly again (not that I've had the $ to do so anyway). It's more fears about the type of future world this will create.
There's plenty of evidence to show that covid had made the rich richer, and the poor poorer. Big business (mainly multinationals) has generally gotten bigger, small business has survived propped up by the government, the working class has suffered the most via losing jobs or having reduced income.
And lurching in and out of lockdown isn't going to make it any easier for smaller business to thrive, grow and employ more people.
I mean if were concerned about things like unemployment, child poverty and "inequality" then covid is only going to make all of this worse.
Our government campaigned vociferously for making all of this better - but seem to be locking in a long term plan to only guarantee those exact same people's misery.
Like I said in a prior post billions of dollars spent, did our front line government workers get any money? Nah, pay freezes. Did our medical facilities get significant amounts of money spent so they could cope? Nah...
But don't worry, it will all be solved by the rich or apparently anyone with money getting taxed more, the people that had nothing to do with this problem will be the ones who will pay for it. For years to come.
It appears to be a future of the rich getting richer (but taxed more), the poor getting poorer (and more reliant on the government) and us all having significantly reduced freedoms - all in the effort of eliminating a virus which we can't possibly eliminate...
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@windows97 can't explain my statement, I was relaying someone else's opinion from someone high in the ministry of health via a mate. I was pretty disappointed myself and hope they are wrong and that we will be able to travel abroad freely sooner rather than later
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@windows97 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ.
To be fair that's getting a little thin though, how many billions of dollars have we spent on Covid and covid related stuff, how many months/years has this gone on for and we STILL haven't beefed up our medical system to cope with any sort of outbreak? Is our strategy really been to throw billions of $$ at wage subsidy's and none at the hospitals...and give them pay freezes so they strike??
It's absurdity beyond belief...
and some numbers
according to World Bank
in 1990 NZ had 8.5 hospital beds per 1,000 people. In 2019 that number was 2.5
For Aus it was 9.2 down to 3.8
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@mariner4life moral of the story, stay healthy fuckers!
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@windows97 said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@billy-tell said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
NZs vaccine strategy for a highly contagious virus has a problem. That most if not all countries have. The not insignificant part of the population that refuse to be vaccinated. Generally healthy people aged 20 to 65 who think they have nothing to fear and feel that the altruistic good of herd immunity does not trump their personal freedoms.
You can only save those who want to be saved
But at the price of shutting down NZ to itself and the world? Is NZ just planning to string together a series of level 4 lockdowns over the next couple of years each time a case is confirmed? How long will people accept that before it wears thin?
Our medical system couldn't even deal with spikes in normal Winter illness, let alone a full blown covid19 outbreak, that is why we lockdown and enforce MIQ.
To be fair that's getting a little thin though, how many billions of dollars have we spent on Covid and covid related stuff, how many months/years has this gone on for and we STILL haven't beefed up our medical system to cope with any sort of outbreak? Is our strategy really been to throw billions of $$ at wage subsidy's and none at the hospitals...and give them pay freezes so they strike??
It's absurdity beyond belief...
and some numbers
according to World Bank
in 1990 NZ had 8.5 hospital beds per 1,000 people. In 2019 that number was 2.5
For Aus it was 9.2 down to 3.8
Shit those numbers are damning
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The reforms of the early to mid 90's brought down the average nights stayed in hospital significantly for various situations... for better or worse...
I vaguely recall a stat that new mothers used to stay in hospital an average seven nights after giving birth, until the Crown Health Enterprise reforms of the hospitals, which was eventually down to 1-2 nights.
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The reforms of the early to mid 90's brought down the average nights stayed in hospital significantly for various situations... for better or worse...
I vaguely recall a stat that new mothers used to stay in hospital an average seven nights after giving birth, until the Crown Health Enterprise reforms of the hospitals, which was eventually down to 1-2 nights.
That stat is about right. In fact for a routine birth they encourage you to leave immediately and head to another facility like birthcare
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I hope they are right, containment would be very good
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@canefan only issue there is often they were pessimistic in predicting thier numbers on the previous outbreaks, and turned out well, now they are being optimisitic....
how can they say locations of interest go back to August 1, when the infected person they mentioned couldnt have transmitted it until 7 August
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@taniwharugby or this is a revised assessment based on the last couple of days? I'll cling to any shred of hope mate
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@donsteppa possibly due to infectiousness at the time?
WHo knows?
@JK that a new case, or one earlier?
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa possibly due to infectiousness at the time?
WHo knows?
@JK that a new case, or one earlier?
Ahh may have been in news earlier? I don’t really watch it. Just another pretty local school that the kids play sports against
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Interesting that there's been no Coromandel news so far, hopefully that's a good sign re: the geographic extensiveness of the spread.
I’m highly surprised by this. Was fearing the worst for down there
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@jk said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa possibly due to infectiousness at the time?
WHo knows?
@JK that a new case, or one earlier?
Ahh may have been in news earlier? I don’t really watch it. Just another pretty local school that the kids play sports against
Actually just opened the nzherald app and it’s scrolling in a red banner so suspect it’s recent
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@sparky on another thread mentioned how well Ireland is doing with the vaccination so I went to check out their rates and he's right they are doing really well. Much better than us.
It's interesting to compare the last couple of months of fully vaccinated individuals:
Ireland
May 30: 0.51M
Aug 17: 3.14MNZ
May 30: 0.22M
Aug 17: 0.95MSo in 80 days they increased their fully vaccinated count by 2.6M. We increased it by 0.73M. I don't have the actual historical dose figures otherwise I'd use that, but this still seems incredibly poor. What's going on in NZ? Do we not have the supply? Or is it bureaucracy? Or is it complacency?