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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@jc was a Health Worker that used thier essential worker pass or letter to leave Auckland and go to Huntly for KFC a couple of weeks back.
The rules are great when everyone plays by them, but people are pushing them, and will do so more and more, especially when you consider the perceived failures of the Govt to protect us like they said they would and they impose restrictions on our lives and livelihoods
Are they great though? The moment you start providing exemptions (and yes, I understand why they are needed), don’t the rules only remain fair if the exemptions require an additional action that everybody else without an exemption doesn’t have to go through?
For example if they said everybody with an exemption letter must remain self isolated at all times and be tested every day then you could say the exemption was a managed risk.
But this looks like an ignored risk. And if they can ignore some risks why can’t they ignore mine? Rules shouldn’t look like they have arbitrary enforcement.
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@jc said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@aucklandwarlord Agreeing as I do that the pair broke the law, I’m in two minds about the actual seriousness of what they did.
There is a process that allows people to use exemptions to cross the border. Sure, they misused that but my logic says whoever designed the process accepted that the risks of crossing the border are low, otherwise they would have banned exemptions outright wouldn’t they? If that’s the case does it really matter how far they travel once they are through?
If the process lets them leave it presumes they are safe so why can’t they travel onwards? If Mercer is OK why not Hamilton? Or Wellington… or Wanaka?
I agree that in theory that the actual travel in itself isn't significantly more serious than someone who jumped in their car with the boat on the back and travelled to their bach in Northland or down to the Coromandel last month to ride out the lockdown somewhere more proximate to the beach. However, at that stage, Northland and Coromandel were both in lockdown as well, so if they had presented with symptoms and subsequently tested positive for Covid-19, there would have been some element of protection toward others through the general lockdown measures which were in place at both locations.
Had they left, while carrying the virus to a level 2 place such as Wanaka, people have their guard down a bit more, restrictions are a bit more relaxed, it would spread far easier in level 2 than in level 4.
The number of cases that still appear in MIQ and at the border show that simply having a negative test prior to leaving a Covid area isn't in itself conclusive that you don't have Covid, given everyone is required to have a negative test before getting on the plane to NZ, but we still have people arriving with the virus.
My understanding of the essential work process lets them leave for work which is deemed essential, so they are taking on some element of risk for sure, but it's because of the supposed nature and importance of their work that they're allowed to leave. I'm picking the border exemption letters are intended for a lawyer who might have to travel to Hamilton for a court hearing, but is expected back in Auckland once it is done, and therefore it is only a very small window of time they're out of the lockdown zone. If she was infectious without knowing, a 12 hour period of leaving carries significantly less of a window to infect others, rather than just leaving indefinitely, at which point she could infect people in an ongoing basis.
Society in general also loves a good scapegoat - these people will be it this time around. It's not like it was an innocent mistake, so they had to have known there was a risk this would all blow up in their faces.
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At least they are talking about ways to not lockdown (was on radio) in future.
I will be into full civil disobedience if they do this again. I'm not even in AKL and this has cost me so much financially I will not repeat it. I will find a way to open my business, in some way (safely, I am responsible) and put a house on my property, and have a life again.
And just buy a pie at lunchtime FFS.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
At least they are talking about ways to not lockdown (was on radio) in future.
I will be into full civil disobedience if they do this again. I'm not even in AKL and this has cost me so much financially I will not repeat it. I will find a way to open my business, in some way (safely, I am responsible) and put a house on my property, and have a life again.
And just buy a pie at lunchtime FFS.
Yeah I don't think you'll be alone. It's hard to see kiwis as a whole being so compliant again.
I've been lucky for both lockdowns - for the 2020 one I ended up getting paid OT for working on weekends and in the evenings, and then the second time around I was working from home and had just picked up some added consultancy work. So both times I saved on fuel and other day-to-day expenses while also bringing in more than my actual salary. Most of my friends haven't been so lucky.
I'm gutted for the hospo and retail sectors and other businesses who are just trying to stay afloat amongst other mounting costs (increased wages and sick leave, added public holidays, increased materials costs). It'll take a long time to recover from this, one would think.
Obviously I know it's significantly more complex given the nature of supply chains, but seems a real shame that there weren't ways that things like mills could keep running to address the dire timber shortages. It's also a kick in the teeth for some companies that see the duopoly of supermarket chains pretty much printing money, cupcakes and other things being able to be sold online while the local butcher and greengrocer are being made to close.
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@jc it's like anything though isn't it, all good if we are all playing by the same rules, but as soon as yiu start giving exemptions or grey areas....
I expect for every breach of these rules, there are several more that are missed.
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@aucklandwarlord said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
At least they are talking about ways to not lockdown (was on radio) in future.
I will be into full civil disobedience if they do this again. I'm not even in AKL and this has cost me so much financially I will not repeat it. I will find a way to open my business, in some way (safely, I am responsible) and put a house on my property, and have a life again.
And just buy a pie at lunchtime FFS.
Yeah I don't think you'll be alone. It's hard to see kiwis as a whole being so compliant again.
I've been lucky for both lockdowns - for the 2020 one I ended up getting paid OT for working on weekends and in the evenings, and then the second time around I was working from home and had just picked up some added consultancy work. So both times I saved on fuel and other day-to-day expenses while also bringing in more than my actual salary. Most of my friends haven't been so lucky.
I'm gutted for the hospo and retail sectors and other businesses who are just trying to stay afloat amongst other mounting costs (increased wages and sick leave, added public holidays, increased materials costs). It'll take a long time to recover from this, one would think.
Obviously I know it's significantly more complex given the nature of supply chains, but seems a real shame that there weren't ways that things like mills could keep running to address the dire timber shortages. It's also a kick in the teeth for some companies that see the duopoly of supermarket chains pretty much printing money, cupcakes and other things being able to be sold online while the local butcher and greengrocer are being made to close.
Good post and I agree with you re compliance.
I do wonder how many of the hospo places will reopen around here. Your comments re government changes are really pertinent, minimum wage increase, sick leave increase, etc, they all smash a business and then a lockdown and likely cashflow crisis. I'll manage but I don't think a lot will.
I think that you were previously a cop? I felt for the police guys going out to shut down butchers the other day. They probably felt like we do. The government giving a leg up to two massive corporations is just corrupt.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
The government giving a leg up to two massive corporations is just corrupt
the wealth redistribution over the past 18 months has been so large as to almost be unfathomable.
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@aucklandwarlord said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Obviously I know it's significantly more complex given the nature of supply chains, but seems a real shame that there weren't ways that things like mills could keep running to address the dire timber shortages.
Forgot this bit - supply chains are shot for me - business wise not house.
Read something the other day and spoke to my builder - we can get timber (at a cost). The bit that I read was about where and what our timber / logs do. Apparently we use our crap logs for pulp and paper processed here.
Anything that we can build with gets sent overseas to be processed. @Hooroo might know more.
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Good to see employers finding ways to encourage workers to get vaccinated.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I think that you were previously a cop? I felt for the police guys going out to shut down butchers the other day. They probably felt like we do. The government giving a leg up to two massive corporations is just corrupt.
Yeah I've been out for five or so years now but I felt for the cops who had to go and do that. It's one of those ones where you don't agree with it, but you've still got to enforce the rules you didn't set with no room for individual discretion like you might have with other areas of the law.
It's particularly bad in light of the recently released ComCom report saying that a duopoly existed and that more needed to be done to dismantle it, yet then the government doesn't allow butchers or greengrocers to do contactless pick-up from their storefront, instead funneling business toward the supermarkets, one of whom removed all of their specials in the first lockdown when they had a captive audience. It makes no sense, and from a financial incentive for the government, allowing those stores to open would bring in a bunch more GST and tax revenue, and would mean they have to pay significantly less wage subsidies and other support packages.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@aucklandwarlord said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Obviously I know it's significantly more complex given the nature of supply chains, but seems a real shame that there weren't ways that things like mills could keep running to address the dire timber shortages.
Forgot this bit - supply chains are shot for me - business wise not house.
Read something the other day and spoke to my builder - we can get timber (at a cost). The bit that I read was about where and what our timber / logs do. Apparently we use our crap logs for pulp and paper processed here.
Anything that we can build with gets sent overseas to be processed. @Hooroo might know more.
Not entirely true, we do process timber here for ourselves. We also get a lot back into NZ.
Radiata is split into three parts, the top third which is less dense and weaker, that is used for production of Pulp and Paper. Middle of tree is used for timber, ply etc but not structural, bottom third is structural timber.
NZ produces more Pulp and Paper than there is pulp wood about. So marginal cost saw logs are used to supplement the fibre basket into the mills. The rest is chip from the sawmills that are producing timberwood products
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@snowy same thinking as the flu vaccination really - the employer benefits greatly in reduced sick leave usage and presenteeism (sick people at work doing not much due to being sick but not on leave because they don't have any), so they pay for it. This vaccine is free anyway, so the employer finding other ways to share some of the gains from high vaccination rates is nice.
As a public health measure, beats no jab, no job policies or sending in goon squads to compulsorily inoculate people.
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This post is deleted!
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MIQ vouchers available for booking again from Monday, 3,000 to start with, 4,000 fortnightly thereafter. Also introducing a new system:
Basically, enter the lobby at the set times, get randomly allocated to the queue for booking, get let into the website booking system in that order. Once rooms are sold out, wait for the next dates/vouchers.
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@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the employer benefits greatly in reduced sick leave usage
Hmmm. Really. If you give an employee 10 days sick leave they take it. If you give them 5 that is what they use.
I agree about sick people at work, don't want that.
Won't even comment on vaccines. We agree, it should be obvious.
I like the goon squad idea, better than bribing morons.
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@snowy said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
the employer benefits greatly in reduced sick leave usage
Hmmm. Really. If you give an employee 10 days sick leave they take it. If you give them 5 that is what they use.
I agree about sick people at work, don't want that.
Won't even comment on vaccines. We agree, it should be obvious.
I like the goon squad idea, better than bribing morons.
Pro and college sports are getting into it in the USA
https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/sylvain-lefebvre-fired-blue-jackets-vaccine-1.6173870
Coronavirus - New Zealand