ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’
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@l_n_p said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
[edit - split from a match thread]
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader yes he was. The main criticism was he was too loose and didn't do the hard work.
Sounds familar, actually...
- Probably a few "latest winger" sensations like Roks, Sivi, Rieko
J Savea too. In fact it's probably much harder to still be performing to the very high level expected of an AB winger after 4-5 years than it is to hit the ground running in that position.
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@l_n_p said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
I specifically remember watching Cory Jane as a youngster playing for Wellington and thinking "that guy will never be an AB". He had an average game, and it may have been his long hair at the time
Let's say I got it badly wrong! I'd kill to have him back now, vs a tight team like the Boks or England especially.
Now I keep an open mind on the potential of newbies like Scott Gregory even after watching that terrible game he had at 15.
Jane was an okay XVs player to start out but nothing that said “he’s an AB”. I did like him as a 7s player. Became an awesome AB.
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@frye said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
J Savea too. In fact it's probably much harder to still be performing to the very high level expected of an AB winger after 4-5 years than it is to hit the ground running in that position.
Whereas prop is a position that tends to need experience, and it's harder to judge early on.
Carl Hayman? Olo Brown?
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Some positions need time in the saddle. No.6 and 8 comes to mind. Kaino and a number of young players have had all sorts of problems early on. Maybe players need to adjust to the physicality of test rugby in those positions.
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I saw Andrew Mehrtens play in Brisbane in early 1995. He was very average and almost missed a kick from right in front. Few months later he was one of the best players of the RWC. Like most things you have to look at their full body of work and the circumstances.
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@nepia said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
MJ arrived fully formed. Arguably so did Smokin Joe, he just arrived really really late.
Slight tangent, Buck gave an interview on Melbourne sport radio (SEN, basically an Aussie Rules dominated radio station) yesterday and it was brilliant just to hear the man on Aussie radio. Buck mentioned him and Joe being the older guys in the team at one point.
Below is a link to it.
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MJ arrived fully formed. Arguably so did Smokin Joe, he just arrived really really late.
Same could be said for Bunce. I don't remember Walter Little needing much time to bed in either, maybe in small part because he played with his provincial mate
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@crazy-horse Re Caleb Clarke, also unconvinced but if Auckland or Blues wingers, surely John Kirwan? Marist and Auckland debut in 83, AB debut in 84. Meteoric rise, then ...
By 85 and obviously 86 he was world class - pace, step and ability to offload in the tackle.
The two international wingers I remember from around then were JK, and Patrice Lagisquet.
There may be others in that 1987 RWC winning side.
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I recall in his first match Liam Messam couldn't do a thing right, then he developed into as reliable a performer as you would see; and at the Hurricanes Ma'a Nonu had hands like feet at the start!
The mighty Tana crafted the fabulous player that he became - when he headed off to Toulon he left him in the clever hands of Conrad Smith to finish the job.
I was on my feet cheering for Ma'a when Sonny Bill regained his feet and slipped the pass to him for his try in the 2015 World Cup Final - Nonu's career became a study in exceptionalism.
The bloke who I saw arrive "fully formed" was Sonny Bill Williams¹. I had not seen him play League, I had read the odd article declaring he was no good and I made a point of watching his first appearance for Canterbury in the NPC. What I witnessed was the most exciting natural, complete talent I had seen since watching a young David Campese playing club at Manuka Oval in about 1980.
¹ Obi-wan Umaga had plenty to do with preparing Sonny Bill too.
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*" Nepia
MJ arrived fully formed. "*
Of course he did Nepia - Sir Niko could do no wrong in my book!
And from canefan "Same could be said for Bunce." ... I agree. He was 30, or near that, when he arrived, strolled onto the field and played like he had been there forever. He excelled against the best we had, in Tim Horan and Jason Little, and against smart midfields from the northern hemisphere.
I enjoyed watching Frank Bunce - he appeared like he couldn't run out of sight on a dark night and then he was gone!
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@act-crusader said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
Slight tangent, Buck gave an interview on Melbourne sport radio (SEN, basically an Aussie Rules dominated radio station) yesterday and it was brilliant just to hear the man on Aussie radio. Buck mentioned him and Joe being the older guys in the team at one point.
Below is a link to it.
Thank you for posting that link ACT Crusader, just listened to it. Amusing on so many subjects, very serious in his explanation of your haka. It was clear his time in the NZ Navy had much to do with his sense of discipline and endeavor.
I have heard the great man interviewed previously - he is an articulate and interesting speaker with great pride in the experiences the All Blacks gave him and a clear vision of the importance of that role in New Zealand culture.
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@rotated said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
With Aaron Smith it was similar to Whitelock and Read where it was clear at every level he would make it to the next very quickly.
Plus apart from his pass and speed to the ball, he seems to go on learning and developing.
I seem to notice his kicking game and him taking more of the decision-making load off first-five the last few years. He could well be the hardest current AB to replace. -
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@nepia said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
@rotated said in ABs that arrived ‘fully formed’:
With Aaron Smith it was similar to Whitelock and Read where it was clear at every level he would make it to the next very quickly.
Not to the Canes apparently.
I remember when we first came south and he was a nice steel but I don’t remember much AB chat, no more than other school boy prospects, took him a couple of seasons to fully displace cowen!
