Missing EgyptAir plane - Paris to Cairo
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="581066" data-time="1463734558">
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<p>GPS still works as it uses satellite not a cell phone tower. Like MR I am surprised they can't use GPS to locate planes, but I'm sure smarter people then myself could explain.</p>
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<p>GPS requires line of sight. Hard from the bottom of the ocean. Hence my comment about buoyancy or cell towers under the ocean...</p> -
<p>I'm obviously not deadly serious about the iPhone and duct tape, as I'm sure all aware.</p>
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<p>The original point still stands though. The fact they don't have technology to track a plane, not a phone, a farking plane, the second it goes missing off radar baffles me.</p>
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<p>The where's my iPhone app is just an example of why I'm baffled.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="581077" data-time="1463735353">
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<p>I'm obviously not deadly serious about the iPhone and duct tape, as I'm sure all aware.</p>
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<p>The original point still stands though. The fact they don't have technology to track a plane, not a phone, a farking plane, the second it goes missing off radar baffles me.</p>
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<p>The where's my iPhone app is just an example of why I'm baffled.</p>
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<p>I have explained why.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="581098" data-time="1463739309">
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<p>GPS may not work from the bottom of the ocean but it will work up to that point giving searchers a good starting point.</p>
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<p>That is what they do use though isnt it?... hence the point the plane disappears.</p>
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<p>I think plane transponders are linked to GPS.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="581099" data-time="1463739611"><p>That is what they do use though isnt it?... hence the point the plane disappears.<br><br>
I think plane transponders are linked to GPS.</p></blockquote>
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I'm confused. Are you saying that they do use something like GPS tracking and therefore they know where this plane stopped providing signals?<br>
From the bits I have read the tracking systems that are used only give very sporadic tracking and then it's down to calculations of a vast area. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="581102" data-time="1463740178">
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<p>I'm confused. Are you saying that they do use something like GPS tracking and therefore they know where this plane stopped providing signals?<br>
From the bits I have read the tracking systems that are used only give very sporadic tracking and then it's down to calculations of a vast area.</p>
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<p>Can you provide a link to those 'bits'?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="581102" data-time="1463740178"><p>
I'm confused. Are you saying that they do use something like GPS tracking and therefore they know where this plane stopped providing signals?<br>
From the bits I have read the tracking systems that are used only give very sporadic tracking and then it's down to calculations of a vast area.</p></blockquote>I thought this was accepted as fact. Otherwise why were the recovery teams combing the ocean instead of going straight to the point where the plane hit the water? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="581106" data-time="1463741772"><p>Can you provide a link to those 'bits'?</p></blockquote>
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I thought they were in this thread. <br><br>
I'm not disputing. I just don't understand your previous comment.<br>
Do you mean that most planes currently use systems that track them like GPS until the point that they disintegrate or sink into the sea? From what I read back in the thread even the system described only gave sporadic positioning. <br>
What others were suggesting in a light way was that a basic car Nav type device, if tracked, would at least provide more of a clue to searchers than they obviously currently use. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="581109" data-time="1463742359">
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<p>I thought they were in this thread.<br><br>
I'm not disputing. I just don't understand your previous comment.<br>
Do you mean that most planes currently use systems that track them like GPS until the point that they disintegrate or sink into the sea? From what I read back in the thread even the system described only gave sporadic positioning.<br>
What others were suggesting in a light way was that a basic car Nav type device, if tracked, would at least provide more of a clue to searchers than they obviously currently use.</p>
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<p>They track planes down to the meter. Right until they disappear, that does not equate to knowing where they crashed. You are still looking at huge search areas.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="581107" data-time="1463742071">
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<p>I thought this was accepted as fact. Otherwise why were the recovery teams combing the ocean instead of going straight to the point where the plane hit the water?</p>
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<p>And how would they know where the plane hit the water? They only know where the signals stopped being sent.</p> -
OK I think I get where you are coming from. Are you talking about the scenario where a plane breaks up or explodes in mid air? If so, I understand what you are saying. <br>
There is also the scenario where a plane has mech failure and crashes. From what that posted article says they don't know that point to the metre. <br>
The Malaysian airlines situation shows that there is only calculation and guesswork involved as they have no tracking for ages before it apparently crashed. -
<p>This website is v good for any air crash question. It's a forum for professional pilots.<br><br><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/579183-egyptair-804-disappears-radar-paris-cairo.html'>http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/579183-egyptair-804-disappears-radar-paris-cairo.html</a><br>
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<p>Pprune has all sorts of people on there - a bit like here where some know their rugby very well - others not so much.. There, some are pilots, some pretend to be. Not a terribly reliable source, it does stand for "rumour network" after all.</p>
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<p>As for transponders and GPS - not really linked. The transponder is for SSR (secondary surveillance radar) although a lot of aircraft these days are equipped with ADS-B (automatic dependent surveillance - broadcast) which replaces SSR and doesn't require those sphere things that you see on hills. ADS is already mandatory in Aus and some other places, it will become the norm in future. It is getting more advanced and will certainly help in cases like MH370 and MS04 although they still don't broadcast continuously.</p>
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<p>A kiwi company is actually producing small, cost effective, trackers that can go in helicopters and smaller aircraft which won't have ADS (yet anyway).</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.spidertracks.com/'>http://www.spidertracks.com/</a></p>
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<p>The link posted above has this from the ACARS (aircraft communication addressing and reporting system)</p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Times, 'Time New Roman', sans-serif;font-size:16px;text-align:center;background-color:rgb(255,255,192);">00:26Z 3044 ANTI ICE R WINDOW<br>
00:26Z 561200 R SLIDING WINDOW SENSOR<br>
00:26Z 2600 SMOKE LAVATORY SMOKE<br>
00:27Z 2600 AVIONICS SMOKE<br>
00:28Z 561100 R FIXED WINDOW SENSOR<br>
00:29Z 2200 AUTO FLT FCU 2 FAULT<br>
00:29Z 2700 F/CTL SEC 3 FAULT<br>
no further ACARS messages were received</span></p>
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<p>These are faults that have been sent from the aircraft to the company - usually straight to engineering who monitor aircraft "health". It is easy to jump to conclusions, but those messages indicate that something happened on the co pilots side in the flight deck, there was then smoke detected in the toilet, then in the avionics bay (under the flight deck) which lead to some pretty important things failing. FCU is what the pilot uses to control the aircraft (there are 2 channels and only one has failed at this point) and F/CTL is the flight control computer. That is only a secondary one and there are 5 of them in total (that run the fly by wire system) but it could be an indication that a fire was burning them all. Not nice. They also think that pilot turned off the airway which is a first reaction if in trouble to avoid hitting other aircraft.</p>
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<p>What caused the failures, fire? All speculation but could be several things. </p>
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<p>Looks like they have found wreckage now:</p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-africa-36328976'>http://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-africa-36328976</a></p>