Coronavirus - New Zealand
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@crucial I'll put my hand up, I know I quoted a couple of things he said back at the start, but as time has gone on, his beat hasnt changed, seems he is still back in 2020.
He was still pumping for elimination prior to the MOronic outbreak.
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial right back at the start I think many bought alot of what these 'experts' were saying, whether in line or out of line with the Govt, but the likes of him, Siouxie et al for all thier fear mongering, must be loving this pandemic, making them so relevant, or at least keeping them relevant....I expect as an epidemiologist (sp) this is something they probably always hoped would happen (but also not)
I don't want to search back and point fingers but he was oft quoted here and praised when his view were that the govt was wrong.
He hasn't really changed his doomsday patter. And it got old
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I'm pretty happy to live in a country where the police try to keep the peace rather than escalate. It's really up to dear leader to actually acknowledge the protestors concerns and give them commitment to removing vaccine mandates.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm pretty happy to live in a country where the police try to keep the peace rather than escalate. It's really up to dear leader to actually acknowledge the protestors concerns and give them commitment to removing vaccine mandates.
Seriously? Even if you might agree with the outcome, do w really want a govt that rolls over from a small protest?
They have committed to removing mandates though. Just can’t say exactly when as they don’t have a crystal ball
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@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm pretty happy to live in a country where the police try to keep the peace rather than escalate. It's really up to dear leader to actually acknowledge the protestors concerns and give them commitment to removing vaccine mandates.
Seriously? Even if you might agree with the outcome, do w really want a govt that rolls over from a small protest?
They have committed to removing mandates though. Just can’t say exactly when as they don’t have a crystal ball
To your first point, 200,000 NZers have chosen not to get vaccinated, and many more oppose the idea of ostracizing those people from society. That's not a small number in the context of NZ.
To your second point, there is absolutely no justification for continued mandates when Omicron spreads regardless. So what are they waiting for?
I'd be furious if the police went in all guns blazing on behalf of the government. That's what you see in dictatorships.
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@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@no-quarter said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
I'm pretty happy to live in a country where the police try to keep the peace rather than escalate. It's really up to dear leader to actually acknowledge the protestors concerns and give them commitment to removing vaccine mandates.
Seriously? Even if you might agree with the outcome, do w really want a govt that rolls over from a small protest?
They have committed to removing mandates though. Just can’t say exactly when as they don’t have a crystal ball
To your first point, 200,000 NZers have chosen not to get vaccinated, and many more oppose the idea of ostracizing those people from society. That's not a small number in the context of NZ.
To your second point, there is absolutely no justification for continued mandates when Omicron spreads regardless. So what are they waiting for?
I'd be furious if the police went in all guns blazing on behalf of the government. That's what you see in dictatorships.
How do you know the difference between spread with and without the mandates?
Their advice and decision is based on the spread being much faster and at a speed that could cause major disruption to hospitals, care homes, and many other basic functions of our lives such as supply chains.
I don’t know how that would play out but there’s no going back once you go there.
I understand the desire to slow the impact but what they aren’t getting across is how long they want to play it that way. Eg even if we were having 4k cases a day that’s a long time until we’ve all had it or the spread slows.The upshot to the original question though is that these protests aren’t all about mandates and many of the demands are way beyond what is supported by the public
I don’t want the police going in batons flying either but I also don’t want a country run by mob rule or the abilities of police to do their job undermined by weak decisions in the face of a dare.
If you are going to make threats you have to back them up. -
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And as the cases increase, so do the tests - with about 20,000 swabs being undertaken in Auckland on Monday.
But experts say about 70 percent of those - 14,000 - were not necessary and put a strain on the systemSo you dont think the strain being put on them is due to the contact tracing and definition of a contact requiring isolation?
Little wonder so many are stopping scanning into avoid being flagged as a contact.
And the award for most punchable face of 2022 goes to.......
Guys, ease off. He's an expert.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And as the cases increase, so do the tests - with about 20,000 swabs being undertaken in Auckland on Monday.
But experts say about 70 percent of those - 14,000 - were not necessary and put a strain on the systemSo you dont think the strain being put on them is due to the contact tracing and definition of a contact requiring isolation?
Little wonder so many are stopping scanning into avoid being flagged as a contact.
And the award for most punchable face of 2022 goes to.......
Guys, ease off. He's an expert.
Be kind?
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And as the cases increase, so do the tests - with about 20,000 swabs being undertaken in Auckland on Monday.
But experts say about 70 percent of those - 14,000 - were not necessary and put a strain on the systemSo you dont think the strain being put on them is due to the contact tracing and definition of a contact requiring isolation?
Little wonder so many are stopping scanning into avoid being flagged as a contact.
And the award for most punchable face of 2022 goes to.......
Guys, ease off. He's an expert.
Be kind?
Exactly! Honestly, the guy deserves a lot more respect than is given for pointing that every single case of Covid is not being caught.
Thats phenomenal insight, right there & takes years of experting to understand.
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Got off the phone to my bro in law in Melbourne. Seems we have learned nothing from their experience and are ready to fuck it up just the same.
Step 1: fail to modify iso settings for omicron. Aussie maintained delta style iso and close contact settings and 40% of the workforce was isolating pretty quickly. Cue a series of backtracks to loosen rules and get people back to work
Step 2: lean on PCR too much. Already testing stations are swamped by the wave of close contacts. Many of these people are asymptomatic. They failed to prepare to use RATs as omicron hit
Step 3: fail to distribute. As things pick up pace RAT tests could help keep people working and getting on with life. They are near impossible to source, ones I have bought are all due to deliver mid March. It will be too late by then. We need access now. If access is too difficult people won't test. The government are sitting on a stockpile of RATs and have not considered how to get them out for widespread use. In Oz now you can buy them from the supermarket, my nieces and nephews are being sent home with them from school. Meanwhile Bloomfield stole as many as he could, and there are currently 8 pick up centres to service all essential service workers in Auckland. It is near on impossible for a normal person to get them right now. WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY WAITING FOR??? If they want to track the progress of omicron, they need to flood the country with RATs now.
Melbourne hospital numbers have been modest. They have had people in ICU, they have had deaths. But BILs understanding of demographics suggest that people who are hospitalised, admitted to the ICU, or died, come from two main groups
- Unvaxxed
- Old/immunocompromised/comorbidities
So for the vaccinated, and probably younger fitter non-vaxxed, omicron is the cold or flu. By the time omicron is endemic in the population, RAT tests are almost rendered unneccessary, who cares what specific illness made you sick? You still stay home until you are well. And if you get sick enough to be admitted, of course the hospital will perform a PCR, to someone sick enough to actually need it.
In Melbourne they are now telling people to stay at home if you feel sick, come back out when you feel better. Fucken simples. Hospitals are about to restart 100% surgical capacity. Our settings still smack of an underlying elimination mentality that we can't shake. Just like Oz. Until they were forced to change, by omicron. We will endure all of the pain that Australia did. And somehow the people won't be able to get enough of aunty Jacinda
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Happy days!
Given NZ's high vaccination coverage, I think NZ is making a mountain out of a molehill. Will be intriguing to see how long NZ holds out before realising a cold-like illness doesn't need draconian measures generalised to the whole population.
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Bit of a brain dump here.......
Way too much thinking and shouting with an anti-govt slant isn't going to achieve what we want here.
It has been quite obvious that sitting govts get too caught up in the woods to see the trees for a while and that slows down change. Govts by nature (no matter their ideology) get caught in the web of bureaucracy that is the public service. They aren't blameless themselves as they are risk averse (sometimes that is a good thing) and there is a big element of face saving.
Every opposition party has the luxury of thinking out loud but when in power find that change is not a agile as their ideas. This, IMO, creates a culture of fixing onto an idea and seeing it through no matter the consequences. I'm currently working in the public service and this part does my head in. They spend so long ensuring that all bases and arses are covered that by the time they get onto the doing the original aim is partly redundant. They don't (or can't) work like agile businesses where you strike while the iron is hot and be prepared for quick assessments along the way, open to the possibility of ditching the work half way through if it is no longer relevant.
As we are witnessing, shouting at them is counter-productive. A week after the protests in Welly changed from the feral looneys running the show to a more general protest they are still fixated on the looney element and not listening to the others because of that. In other words the path they had decided on is now fixed and they are digging in.
This is a case of if you really want them to change tack you have to speak up as the 'man in the street'. Contact the media and in a sane way ask them to ask the hard questions clearly and demand a clear answer.
If one of the morning TV shows that regularly get to interview the PM asked her straight to justify the current situation and point to overseas experience with omicron as examples that belie the worst case modellings maybe that will sink in or at least influence public thinking?
I think you are right in saying there is a fixation of keeping us safe from the virus but the balance is getting out of whack and they are blinkered. I also think that (apart from the handling of returnees and a few other individual circumstances) they have generally done a good job of steering us through a pandemic that was actually live threatening. They are just slow to change that mindset in part because they have had people telling them they are wrong the whole time. Boy who cried wolf stuff and they have to stop and think before arrogance rules.
I'm not sure that I am fully on board with complete removal of all management of the virus spread. I do think that it holds some danger to at risk people. That management could be MoH advice (like wearing masks on public transport) rather than rules though. Maybe some temporary changes to labour laws around sick leave (with associated business support).
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Wow...
The neurologist said in her letter she had a “concern that reaction to second vaccine will again impact on neurological function”.
However, a letter was sent back declining the exemption. That letter, seen by Stuff, stated: “I am not satisfied, based on the evidence or other information provided, that you meet the specified Covid-19 vaccination exemption criteria.”
It suggested Sophie “consult” with a health professional about the best vaccination option, which could include having the Pfizer vaccine with appropriate supervision, or the use of an alternate vaccine. -
@taniwharugby yea this is one of the completely indefensible parts of the vaccine rollout. In there bid stop as many loopholes around getting it, they have forced people to either not get it and face whatever consequences around employment or whatever. Or Risk their health.
The arrogance when Bloomfield stated only 100 odd people in NZ were eligible for an expemtion was pretty disgusting.
Have seen some shocking effects in the odd person and the GP's were powerless to help them.
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loooool
look at this fucking trash
Professional activist doesn't like this protest because "far right".
This is my absolute favourite bit
"If acting on my individual freedom means that I put another’s health at risk, is it worth taking that action? I say no.
That is why I have been voluntarily self-isolating, or close to it, for the past few months. If my world shrinking means another person lives, then it is worth it. If my inconvenience means our frontline workers can safely return home each night to their families, then it is worth it."
How about you continue to stay home then and let everyone else do their thing. This is the last dying gasps of people desperate for this to be the great panic of 2020, because you get to show how much you care.
Detached from reality
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Wow...
The neurologist said in her letter she had a “concern that reaction to second vaccine will again impact on neurological function”.
However, a letter was sent back declining the exemption. That letter, seen by Stuff, stated: “I am not satisfied, based on the evidence or other information provided, that you meet the specified Covid-19 vaccination exemption criteria.”
It suggested Sophie “consult” with a health professional about the best vaccination option, which could include having the Pfizer vaccine with appropriate supervision, or the use of an alternate vaccine.Another great example of the ministeries over-applying the rules put to them to administer. God,there must be some fuckwits in these places. I've ranted plenty about MBIE being the same. Applying the rules in such a draconian way.
When challenged with legal action though, they back down. It's the jobsworths at the coalface and their middle managers that are the problem. -
@mariner4life She looks normal to me.....
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
This is my absolute favourite bit
"If acting on my individual freedom means that I put another’s health at risk, is it worth taking that action? I say no.
That is why I have been voluntarily self-isolating, or close to it, for the past few months. If my world shrinking means another person lives, then it is worth it. If my inconvenience means our frontline workers can safely return home each night to their families, then it is worth it."If only a lot of other people thought the same way she did and took action they thought appropriate as opposed to telling the rest of us what to do.
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It would appear that there are few RATs around because.... the government failed to order enough of them. So while omicron ran through Australia in December, and they scrambled for RATs, what the fuck were we doing? Seizure of RATs by Bloomfield only attempts to hide the fact they didn't act. Jesus wept, who will shine a light on all this incompetence? And will the people even bloody care? Meanwhile stories of mass self isolations at work and schools abound. What a shower this is