All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills. Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.Nah - just because we didn't have one guy who's only job was to get turnovers, doesn't mean we weren't getting turnovers. I'd be extremely surprised to see that total turnovers across the teams in any of our matches against Aus with him playing weren't close to evens.
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Tom likes tsf eh
The new men the All Blacks might call upon for the Rugby Championship
The All Blacks could look to refresh their squad ahead of the Rugby Championship.
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@canefan bring back laumape
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@voodoo said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
There's a theme developing here. We appear to have a squad of guys that rightly or wrongly can't command a starting jumper but are deemed great and flexible reserves, covering multiple positions at an average level. Ardie covers 6-8 (and 12). Sami cant get a start. Barrett 6 or lock. Jordie 15, 12 and wing. BB 10 and 15. Havili and RTS and JG 12/13 with a bit of 10/15 thrown in. Reiko 13 and wing. Paps is a 6 or a 7, Sowakulu a 6 or an 8, Akira can't play 80 and Sotutu can't get a run at all.
My solution is to start just 5 forwards and 5 backs (doesn't really matter which ones) and have a 13 man bench. After 60mins we can roll out our bench superstars and dominate all comers.
Who's with me?
NZs obsession with shuffling players around in different positions isn't helping. I really don't think Jordie's time at 12 in Super rugby has helped his form at 15 in black this year.
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@No-Quarter I guess , although I don't blame Holland for selecting Josh Moorby, the man scored Nine tries in what was his debut super season🙂
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@FakatavaAllBlack As an aside Holland would be a much better backs/attack coach than Moar. The Canes were very good at manipulating defences to generate space / opportunities.
Foz stuck Jordie on the wing for multiple tests but won't select him at 12.
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@family-man said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@canefan bring back laumape
He got a lot of flak on here. I'm not convinced he couldn't have got better and been an asset for the ABs
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@FakatavaAllBlack As an aside Holland would be a much better backs/attack coach than Moar.
thats a very low bar to jump
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective. If you've got lightweight Hooper and 3 nobodies as the other components, then not so much. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
The point as you acknowledged was turnovers are now won by everyone - players that actually bring other skills to the table.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective.
Not as effective as a McCaw and in the last RWC era, not as effective as another punishing defender. There are less and less gaps unless you are meek in defence.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Dillon hunt was a bit of a loss in my mind
I think you can have a pilferer and still acknowledge everyone should be able to get a turn over
if you have someone whos primary role on defence is to look for them then thats the first step in having some structure
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The method for dealing with teams that have a dedicated pilferer is pretty standard now, run at them and make them the tackler. I can't see us being more than adequate if we decide to go down that road - we are much better served by having the ability to jackal in all of the team and a few guys (hooker, one lock, all loosies, at least one midfielder) who are really good over the ball.
Right now, that's probably the issue, Taylor looks like he doesn't want to be there, none of our props seem to have that capability, BBBR hasn't been able to get over the ball, Ardie seems to only do it once he gets his go juice (usually in the 3rd quarter), and neither of our midfielders are strong. Reece can do a job on the wing, but it's not a strength.
Second to that is that it doesn't seem to be a target of our defense system either. They appear to have a set of criteria under which they attack the ball and most breakdowns don't appears meet that criteria (no idea what that criteria is BTW).
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
The point as you acknowledged was turnovers are now won by everyone - players that actually bring other skills to the table.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective.
Not as effective as a McCaw and in the last RWC era, not as effective as another punishing defender. There are less and less gaps unless you are meek in defence.
McCaw has nothing to do with it. We don't have McCaw anymore. If we aren't picking anyone who isn't as effective as him, then it's a team of zero.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The method for dealing with teams that have a dedicated pilferer is pretty standard now, run at them and make them the tackler. I can't see us being more than adequate if we decide to go down that road - we are much better served by having the ability to jackal in all of the team and a few guys (hooker, one lock, all loosies, at least one midfielder) who are really good over the ball.
Right now, that's probably the issue, Taylor looks like he doesn't want to be there, none of our props seem to have that capability, BBBR hasn't been able to get over the ball, Ardie seems to only do it once he gets his go juice (usually in the 3rd quarter), and neither of our midfielders are strong. Reece can do a job on the wing, but it's not a strength.
Second to that is that it doesn't seem to be a target of our defense system either. They appear to have a set of criteria under which they attack the ball and most breakdowns don't appears meet that criteria (no idea what that criteria is BTW).
as i said...cant you have both...and if we know how theyre going to deal with the jackler, by running at him, cant we then prepare...yes...he might not get the turnover...but we've made them play a certain way
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@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players.
