The Worst All Blacks results ...
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@African-Monkey said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@ACT-Crusader Yeah agree with 04 where we were sort of rebuilding. Marius Joubert scored 3 from memory, and yeah, 07 just came outta nowhere against an out of sorts French side.
ABs were crap in 04 because they were moving away from the Mitchell/Deans soft belly to a more confrontational approach under Henry. The cattle weren't ready to play this way which is why the likes of Norm Maxwell, Chris Jack and even Troy Flavell were used.
This was the team that day:
NEW ZEALAND: Muliaina; Howlett, Umaga (capt), Tuitupou, Rokocoko; Mehrtens, Marshall; Meeuws, Mealamu, Hayman, Jack, Maling, Gibbes, Holah, Rush. Replacements: Hore, Somerville, Tuiali'i, Newby, Kelleher, Evans, Mauger.
Good backline, although Mauger was a better foil for Umaga but could only really be done when Carter emerged so Mehrtens defensive weakness didn't have to be plugged :-), good front row...then the problems start.
Jack and Maling as the second rows. And people think the cupboard is bare now?!?
Gibbes/Holah/Rush - Holah was ace, but the other two were mere placeholders.
On the subs bench, backs are ok. Hore and Somerville and the bench were fine, Tuiali'i had huge potential but rarely delivered and Craig Newby...he was the 2004 Luke Jacobsen
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I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
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@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I think you’re being a bit harsh on Chris Jack and Jonno Gibbes. OK neither all time greats but both pretty good. Jack got a load of caps from memory and Gibbes lost out to the suitcase for quite a while? How did that happen?
Chris Jack was great at Super Rugby level. He wasn't a test lock. Too loose and too many errors.
Fair point about Jono Gibbes. Just lacked the pace to be a great 6. Hard bugger though.
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S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
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This is by far the worst coached All Blacks in my time following them since the mid-80s. No confidence in squad, a lack of attention to detail and little sense of direction. Too many out of form players or players in decline given a free pass because they are pals of the Head Coach.
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@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
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@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Don't get me wrong, he was good for all the attributes that you listed.
I'm not saying there were better either. My original comment was that he wasn't what Henry needed to play the gameplan he wanted. He didn't have the edge for test rugby and went missing when things became attritional. Like you, I used to watch him play super rugby and think if he could just transfer that form to the international game he'd be world class. Yet he seldom did it.
Keith Robinson was not as athletic or as talented as Jack, but he could shift bodies and did the dirty work needed at test level.
I'm sure there are Cantabrians frothing at the mouth about these sacrilegious words about one of their own
Just an opinion. -
My first memories of watching rugby was the 95 world cup, where I became absolutely obsessed with Jonah Lomu. I can still remember how absolutely gutted I was losing the final, I just couldn't wrap my young brain around how we could lose when we had Lomu on our team. My world collapsed around me that day haha.
Next worst for me is the 07 quarter, I was convinced we were comfortably the best team in the world at that point (well we were TBF), so again that was really difficult to take, especially with Barnes freezing like a bunny on the big stage and deciding to award zero penalties for 60 minutes which today is still one of the most insane refereeing performances I have witnessed.
But for me in terms of the ABs performance being so bad it was embarrassing, our first ever loss to Argentina is probably the worst for me. That wasn't a good Argentina side, there's no way we should be losing that match, that was fucking diabolical and Foster should have been axed when the full time whistle blew.
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@No-Quarter said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
My first memories of watching rugby was the 95 world cup, where I became absolutely obsessed with Jonah Lomu. I can still remember how absolutely gutted I was losing the final, I just couldn't wrap my young brain around how we could lose when we had Lomu on our team. My world collapsed around me that day haha.
Next worst for me is the 07 quarter, I was convinced we were comfortably the best team in the world at that point (well we were TBF), so again that was really difficult to take, especially with Barnes freezing like a bunny on the big stage and deciding to award zero penalties for 60 minutes which today is still one of the most insane refereeing performances I have witnessed.
But for me in terms of the ABs performance being so bad it was embarrassing, our first ever loss to Argentina is probably the worst for me. That wasn't a good Argentina side, there's no way we should be losing that match, that was fucking diabolical and Foster should have been axed when the full time whistle blew.
He has the dubious distinction of being able to put his name to several of our worst ever performances (regardless of the actual result)
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@stodders It is a bad opinion. Confrontational lock who never took a step back.
In fairness, I didn't say it was a good one
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@Victor-Meldrew said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
I don’t think this era can be topped.
Oh yes it can....
1970-71 - Three Test losses on the trot
1971 - First series loss to the Lions
1972 - First loss to an England club side (twice)
1972 - First draw with an Irish club side
1973 - First time we didn't win against Ireland (10-10 draw)
1973 - Lost to France for the first time in 20 years
1973 - Lost to the NZ Juniors
1973 - Lost to a NZ Invitation Side
1973 - First loss to England at home (Eden Park)Still, on the bright side, things did pick up after about 5 years and 3-4 new coaches
Hmmmmm I’m not convinced.
I think the consecutive Irish losses seals the deal for me personally.
Them winning ONE test in NZ is a hell of an effort when you consider their overall history. To do manage two is pretty damning.
The EOYT has disaster written all over it too.
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@nostrildamus said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Nepia said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@mikedogz said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Laurie Mains era except for World Cup. 1998, Early 2000's.
I don't think the Mains era was that bad, but it was all over the show. Series win over a strong Lions team, series win over a strong-ish Boks team, a very close series loss to an awesome Oz team, a series loss to the try from the end of the world. In most of those matched good rugby was played by both sides.
@MajorRage said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Worst one-off is quarter final RWC 2007. Easily. That was a killer.
03 semi is worst for me.
@booboo said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Was it 1973 when we lost to ourselves, NZ Universities and England ... ?
Yeah I think so, thank god I wasn't around for the early 70s.
Plus he gave debuts to Jonah, Goldie, Osbourne, Merhts, Kronfeld and others I may have missed.
He also almost won the WC and the team was the most exciting one on display by far.
Off topic slightly but not sure I’d call the Lions team too strong, the midweek team were a bunch of disorganised pass heads apparently.
I thought their top team was decent but due to them being locked in the midweek team decided to go on holiday.
Bit of a mixture from memory. Hastings, Evans, Gibbs, Guscott, Underwood, Andrew etc were all greats but some of the Scottish tight forwards who somehow got test caps were very journeymanish
Damn, now I'm going to have to look it up - I thought it was mostly English forwards like Bayfield, Clarke, Leonard, Winterbottom and the young fulla Johnson etc.
Edit: Looks like the coach was drunk or there were injuries for the first test when the three Scots got a start. It was the Englishmen and Popplewell for the rest of the tests.
Yeah I couldn’t find it online at first but three Scots in the tight five was beyond ridiculous. Plodders the lot of them.
By international standards or those exemplary Scottish standards?
All of the above
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@stodders said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Gibbes/Holah/Rush - Holah was ace, but the other two were mere placeholders
agree on Holah, but by fuck i will not sit by while you besmirch a Chiefs spiritual leader like that.
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i was fucking angry as the 2003 semi unfolded and we just couldn't get in the game after the intercept (great bit of coaching again by Eddie)
But that 2007 quarter is the only time i have felt numb. I thought that squad would piss in what was a very poor world cup. And the way we were playing it was inevitable we would win. And then the whistle went, and we hadn't. WTF?
Yes it was the making of that core group of players. But by fuck it suuuucked at the time.
Even when we used to lose, while gutting, we were never out of the game. All those gut-wrenching Bledisloe losses in teh last minute etc. Sunday was bad because were were dominated, and never at any stage did it look like we might win.
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@mariner4life said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@stodders said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
Gibbes/Holah/Rush - Holah was ace, but the other two were mere placeholders
agree on Holah, but by fuck i will not sit by while you besmirch a Chiefs spiritual leader like that.
He was great for the Chiefs. That I can't argue with
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2001 first Bledisloe in Dunedin comes to mind.
After an awful 2001 Super Rugby season where no NZ team made the semi finals the 2001 season was seen as a clean slate.
The ABs had an unbelievable record in Dunedin at the time.
Jonah scored early doors but apart from that the ABs got smoked (an awesome try by Matt Burke in there).
Taine Randell was playing 7 I think. Thankfully later in the year a Mr McCaw would be on the AB scene (much to the shock of Mr Kronfeld).
It was an absolute farce at the end with time up + the ABs down 8 points and captain Anton Oliver refusing to take 3 points which would secure a losing bonus point but instead went to go for the try which inevitably failed.
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@ACT-Crusader said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@nostrildamus no way. 2007 was a thousand times worst than 03.
2007 still remains the biggest head scratcher of a match for me. After the result I didn’t want to get out of bed the whole day.
Beg to differ. I expected us to perform magnificently and then flop all through RWC. Australia had been gaining on us after the initial spectacular win all year and we didn't see it.
2007: against France in a RWC. That is all I need to write. -
@MN5 said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
@Catogrande said in The Worst All Blacks results ...:
S’funny. At the time I saw him as your pre-eminent lock. Athletic, good line out forward, ok in the maul and as a carrier. Maybe a bit of a ruck inspector. Not sure who you’d have had above him at the time?
Yeah Jack was good. Him and Williams did a great job although Whitelock and Retallick were a level above.
I don't know, they had some fine games together.
