Foster, Robertson etc
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
Yeah, the world had moved on and it took New Zealand rugby nearly 5 years to cotton on and realise that just sacking the coach didn't work and serious change was needed
Sure they tried something different that time, and it worked (assuming you are talking about re-signing Henry & Co) thats not to say it is the right call this time, as right now, it does not appear so where we stumble from one crash to a near miss to a good result.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
Smith 69%,
Is this a different Smith to the "NZ's greatest coach (Wayne Smith) " you mentioned previously?
Asking for a friend....
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@Victor-Meldrew that's only his Crusaders record, the professor was also responsible for Chiefs' best ever seasons, Smith left after winning 2 titles (2012-1st, 2013-1st) and Rennie could only manage a modest (5th-2014, 5th-2015, 6th-2016, 6th-2017).
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@taniwharugby said in Foster:
(assuming you are talking about re-signing Henry & Co)
I was actually talking about the bloody awful AB teams and the even worse succession of wonder-coaches of my 1970's youth, which make Foster's reign look like a veritable golden age.
There really is an uncanny resemblance to today's All Blacks drama and, Foster aside, I really don't want to go thru that shit again.
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I'm on the Razor bandwagon.
I used to think that if you had the cattle then any vaguely competent coach could get them across the line - but, Rennie (and Smith) vs Foster and then Razor vs Toddy Blackadder convinced me I was thinking bullshit.
Instantaneous improvement to repeated victory.
I reckon under Fozzie we're getting similar results to what we'd be getting under Toddy. Decent people, competent coaches, trying their best - but, they just don't quite have the magic touch.
Razor may not be able to work his magic with the ABs post-2023 (see Rennie and the Wallabies), but I reckon we'd be silly not to give him the shot.
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@kiwi_expat Smith was still involved with the Chiefs in 2014.
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Smith's record in Test rugby was outstanding at Assistant Coach level but a bit of a failure as Head coach.
But I think you're right in arguing (as others have argued and you have just pointed out with Smith), that Head Coach success at Super level isn't a sure-fire indicator of success at Test level.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
So, there is a precedent for a coach coming out of Christchurch with a good provincial record
Both Wayne Smith and Scott Robertson were born, raised & schooled in Mooloo country
from Putāruru & Mt Maunganui respectively, so perhaps you should change your record.Sorry? Me change my record/?
You're the one banging on (ad nauseum) about certain individuals records coaching Christchurch based sides. Apart from pointing out the AB's woeful record in the 1970's I've barely commented.
Irrespective of where someone was born, schooled, first played rugby, popped their cherry; if their reputation as a coach was made coaching in Christchurch, then, as a coach, they came out of Christchurch - so perhaps you should change your record.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster:
I think I missed Carlos’ comments, anyone link easily?
'Far too predictable': Carlos Spencer slams All Blacks after 'frustrating' performance
Rugby legend Carlos Spencer has slammed the All Blacks after a “frustrating” attacking display during their 38-31 win over Japan on Saturday.
Carlos calling out predictability, surely not… 😎
“We knew that Carlos Spencer was always looking to throw that long wide ranging ball.” Nathan Sharpe
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@ACT-Crusader well they got the call wrong not to award Mils the try prior to that....genuine 14 pointer that one.
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I'm on the Razor bandwagon.
I used to think that if you had the cattle then any vaguely competent coach could get them across the line - but, Rennie (and Smith) vs Foster and then Razor vs Toddy Blackadder convinced me I was thinking bullshit.
Instantaneous improvement to repeated victory.
I reckon under Fozzie we're getting similar results to what we'd be getting under Toddy. Decent people, competent coaches, trying their best - but, they just don't quite have the magic touch.
Razor may not be able to work his magic with the ABs post-2023 (see Rennie and the Wallabies), but I reckon we'd be silly not to give him the shot.
Crusaders didn't win a title for a decade with their most talented & laden with international (Samoa, Fiji incl.) squads ever.
Almost all of these players left, Razor and a bunch of kids in their early 20's came in, and they won a title every year since.
That's just the Crusaders. When you look at what happened to Canterbury after Razor left, the team has been underwhelming. Very inconsistent. A constant rotation of coaches coming in and out.
People rightly focus on his Canterbury and Crusaders records, but he also turned Sumner from a mediocre club into Champions. He also won at U20 level after years of NZ struggling at age grade level. So his success is a lot more consistent than many realize:
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@MajorRage said in Foster:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
@MajorRage said in Foster:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
I hope they keep Foster as coach until 2030 its so amusing watching people try to defend him.
It's not people defending Foster. It's people not believing the hype that a coach who's undoubtedly good at SR level but with minimal and patchy experience at international level - and zero experience at Test level - is the magic solution to restore the AB's to the glory days, that NZR knows he will do this but there is some secret illuminati plot within NZR to prevent it happening.
So you end up with stupid arguments that Foster should be sacked as he lost to a team we've never lost to before, but a different criteria should apply to Robertson as he needs time to settle into the role due to inexperience at Test level.
International experience has nothing to do with coaching ability, you've either got 'it' or you don't.
It's a skill that is innate & in-built for guys such as Jones, Razor, Galthie, Erasmus, etc..
Foster just doesn't have 'it', the evidence is... he has achieved underwhelming results in every head coaching role across his 20 year coaching career with Waikato, Chiefs, & now the All Blacks...
Kirwan was the head coach of Italy & Japan, he was a poor Blues coach, after coaching Wales for 12 years Gatland lost 8/8 of his Chiefs matches, their worst losing streak ever. Experience is irrelevant in many cases.
What is your evidence (examples welcome) that Robertson has the innate / in built skill to be an international coach?
Maybe, because he has developed a track record that quite comfortably exceeds what Robbie Deans, Wayne Smith, Graham Henry, Dave Rennie, etc.. ever achieved at Super Rugby and provincial level?
Razor is obviously a once in a generation coach, and players such as Izzy Dagg who've played under NZ's greatest coach (Wayne Smith) have stressed that Razor is on his level.
All jokes aside is he your Dad or something?
This isn’t even a debate or discussion. The level you put him on, with NO international results is beyond absurd.
Also ignores the clear fact that managing/coaching a team through a competition campaign for success at the pointy end is a very different proposition to coaching a team to international (win every game) type success that only has a 'final' every four years.
There are similarities but also differences. That is why Razor wants to coach in that space. It is a different challenge. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
So, there is a precedent for a coach coming out of Christchurch with a good provincial record
Both Wayne Smith and Scott Robertson were born, raised & schooled in Mooloo country
from Putāruru & Mt Maunganui respectively, so perhaps you should change your record.Since when is Mt Maunganui been in 'Mooloo' country? The BOP Mafia will be readying a horses head for you as we speak.
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@booboo no I'm not 50
but even then I assume the terrible teams of the 70's didn't lose to Ireland and Argentina and I assume would have beaten Japan more comfortably too.Perhaps I should specify that this current 2022 All Blacks are the worst team I've ever seen, loosing a home series to Ireland, loosing at home to Argentina for the first time and then struggling to beat Japan I honestly couldn't have written a worse script for this year (barring losing the bledisloe).
To be fair I could have lived with losing the bled as we've lost the Bled before but a series loss against Ireland on our home turf and loosing to Argentina really hurt - once a record is gone it's gone, there's no getting it back.
If there is indeed a worse team than this then my commiserations for anyone who had to watch that and I hope that this year hasn't triggered too much PTSD reliving the horrors' of the past.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster:
So, there is a precedent for a coach coming out of Christchurch with a good provincial record
Both Wayne Smith and Scott Robertson were born, raised & schooled in Mooloo country
from Putāruru & Mt Maunganui respectively, so perhaps you should change your record.Since when is Mt Maunganui been in 'Mooloo' country? The BOP Mafia will be readying a horses head for you as we speak.
On our maps it's just coloured grey and labelled "mid-North Island swamp".
Extends from the Auckland airport terminal building to Petone.
