Electric Vehicles
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@nostrildamus ... and yet, they can't make a car that I'd actually want to drive. Sales in America are of course important for their profitability but the US has honestly given us very little in the way of decent cars. Sometimes iconic, sure, but not often objectively good.
There will never be a Tesla in my garage because they bore me shitless.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
So, while the technology may become available I can't really see them taking off.
It needs to be in every car - simultaneously communicating with every other car - to eliminate the human error across the board.
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
So, while the technology may become available I can't really see them taking off.
It needs to be in every car - simultaneously communicating with every other car - to eliminate the human error across the board.
And even then, we probably still won’t be able to solve the issues around regulation and insurance and ethics.
I don’t even think it’s worth debating @dogmeat ’s assertion around congestion, I just can’t see us ever getting over the other hurdles.
Maybe a country like Singapore could get it done. Australia? Nah. Somewhere as litigious as the States? Forget it.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage I think driverless cars are a chimera. They increase congestion not reduce it. So, while the technology may become available I can't really see them taking off.
The technology isn't all that far away right now. The main constraint is in fact the infrastructure. For example in NZ there are still shedloads of roads that don't have clear markings for cameras to read. You also have weird non-standard road rules at specific locations that cars' technology can't anticipate, like in an intersection not far from me the council has decided that cars opposite each other both get a green filter light at the same time so the ones turning to their own right no longer believe they have to give way to their opposites who are turning to their own left (who in reality ALWAYS have right of way). Carparks are a nightmare too, because people act like complete arseholes. The number of people who will blow past a car reversing out of a parking space because they believe their right to do so trumps any need to exercise common sense is a never-ending source of rage for me. Modern cars will intervene in that but only to an extent.
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@NTA said in Electric Vehicles:
@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
So, while the technology may become available I can't really see them taking off.
It needs to be in every car - simultaneously communicating with every other car - to eliminate the human error across the board.
Have you been following developments in that area Nick? There is a consortium of (I think 11) manufacturers who have developed standards for swapping packets of information about congestion etc using a virtual WLAN. It's been running for over 10 years and is now used pretty widely. The concept is you don't need huge data centres to process the information, the effort gets distributed between all the cars' simpler CPUs and the ones with dedicated SIMs upload the data.
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I fear the technology they have developed for automated cars is more likely to be used in the surveillance of drivers and the collection of evidence to enable enforcement action when the driver breaks a road rule. In other words we will be driving around in cars that are programmed to dob us in.
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@gt12 said in Electric Vehicles:
I’m not arguing your point about the importance of outside markets for Japanese manufacturers, I’m explaining that there are likely social infrastructure reasons for the reluctance of all of the Japanese manufacturers to fully commit to EV.
I get that (and a similar issue in Europe and Seoul and even parts of China) but
1 There are quite a few highly profitable markets and models from Toyota (and I think Honda?) that don't even exist in Japan
2 Japan has a pride issue in this space and a key person is hassling them over it and they do some crazy things (I mean, does a Japanese urban dweller need a rotary engine car?)
3 There is technology to recharge as you drive over it and battery swap markets in South Korea or networks people can join (for a fee of course)
And of course they are interested in lighter, quicker to charge, longer-range solid state batteries
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@JC said in Electric Vehicles:
@nostrildamus ... and yet, they can't make a car that I'd actually want to drive. Sales in America are of course important for their profitability but the US has honestly given us very little in the way of decent cars. Sometimes iconic, sure, but not often objectively good.
Toyota you mean? Yep, not known for the driving experience.
There will never be a Tesla in my garage because they bore me shitless.
I don't own a Tesla, and probably won't. But I admire what they've done.
As for American cars, they were kind of cool in the 1920s.
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@dogmeat said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage I think driverless cars are a chimera. They increase congestion not reduce it.
I'm not sure that's correct. True driverless cars would competently tailgate, communicating to other cars around it to ensure ease of traffic flow. But despite the promises (that the SEC can't be fucked penalising) automation in the public space is a long way off. The standards don't exist, the shared infrastructure doesn't exist and the computing power in cars doesn't exist.
I guess you may be right Tesla fan bois are very ardent and may be blinded to the fact that the product isn't the best.
They're objectively, measurably terrible in every facet other than battery performance (technology that they licence in partnership).
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@nostrildamus said in Electric Vehicles:
@gt12 said in Electric Vehicles:
I’m not arguing your point about the importance of outside markets for Japanese manufacturers, I’m explaining that there are likely social infrastructure reasons for the reluctance of all of the Japanese manufacturers to fully commit to EV.
I get that (and a similar issue in Europe and Seoul and even parts of China) but
1 There are quite a few highly profitable markets and models from Toyota (and I think Honda?) that don't even exist in Japan
2 Japan has a pride issue in this space and a key person is hassling them over it and they do some crazy things (I mean, does a Japanese urban dweller need a rotary engine car?)
3 There is technology to recharge as you drive over it and battery swap markets in South Korea or networks people can join (for a fee of course)
Apart from the hideous expense, those things have existed for ever. They're called trains.
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I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
F150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq, the Nissan Leaf and I think the KIA all do home charging.
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@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
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@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
F150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq, the Nissan Leaf and I think the KIA all do home charging.
Right, the basic technology is there. I would have thought like everything else, Tesla would be leading this.
Although I guess that would sell less power walls.
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@antipodean said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
F150 Lightning, Hyundai Ioniq, the Nissan Leaf and I think the KIA all do home charging.
Right, the basic technology is there. I would have thought like everything else, Tesla would be leading this.
Although I guess that would sell less power walls.
Cynical, but a good point!
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@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
@voodoo said in Electric Vehicles:
@MajorRage said in Electric Vehicles:
I have often wondered why car batteries can't be used to help power households.
I.e - be a Powerwall.
They should be a key part of running a renewables based grid / household consumption. So energy is stored when generation is strong (wind, solar, tidal etc) and then when it's weak households drain the car battery before applying to the grid.
It all seems fairly basic maths to me.
That’s because it IS bleedingly obvious. Can’t speak for other countries but the issues here are:
- not enough EVs
- not enough smart meters
- electricity retailers doing their best to nullify the benefit of resi solar and batteries / EVs by extension
As always, lots of vested interests and political point scoring getting in the way of doing anything productive.
Micro-grids in a community make so much sense to me.
It's obvious? It's not obvious to me why this colossal energy storage thing in your car can't be used to power your house during peak load / expensive times then charged during reduced load times.
Yes, this can only work for those with electric cars & houses, but thats gotta be a sizeable portion.
Understood on the vested interests. I just find it annoying that here in the UK, there is wind generation capacity for up to around 75% of requirements ... but as soon as the wind stops blowing (literally) it drops to zero. Yes, I understand your point about micro grids, but that isn't a quick / cheap fix. Where as taking advantage of these huge power reserves parked on your driveway feels like it is.
I mean it's obvious (to me, to you, and to anyone else that works even close to the fringes of electricity, renewables, the automobile industry etc) that a decent-sized battery sitting in your carport should be part of your household energy mix!
It gets talked about plenty here by advocates for renewables and EV's - but there remain so many blockages still. Really frustrating