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Fascinating article Nick, interesting how you can find cycles everywhere. One of my family works in venture capital stuff, his boss saw the last collapse coming and got their team to batten down the hatches ready. All his younger staff thought he was just being paranoid but within the year shit happened and they were cashed up and ready to capitalise
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="601920" data-time="1469957248">
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<p>Fascinating article Nick, interesting how you can find cycles everywhere. One of my family works in venture capital stuff, his boss saw the last collapse coming and got their team to batten down the hatches ready. All his younger staff thought he was just being paranoid but within the year shit happened and they were cashed up and ready to capitalise</p>
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<p>Would be interesting to see what happens if one of those pieces doesn't fall into place e.g. Article 50 is executed byt then somehow withdrawn. Trump doesn't win - though that doesn't necessarily mean Clinton is any better... just less of a fucking cuntstack I supposed.</p>
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<p>I'm just sick of the fucking hatred and pigeon holing and bullshit. Stop being fluffybunnys and just start being good fluffybunnys.</p> -
<p>I read the full piece on-line. TBH it sounded a bit like Winger. The guys what a philosophy professor or something? Can't remember but whatever his background has no relevance, so I was a bit bemused as to why it was published.</p>
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<p>To me it was pompous and a bit grasping at straws to try and prove his point(s).</p>
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<p>Canefan - I wonder how often your rellies boss battened down the hatches and nothing happened...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="601923" data-time="1469958082">
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<p>I'm just sick of the fucking hatred and pigeon holing and bullshit. Stop being fluffybunnys and just start being good fluffybunnys.</p>
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<p>A good step towards that goal then would be for people to stop attacking Trump supporters, Brexit supporters etc etc. It seems nowadays tolerance is preached but not actually actioned. Your article is a great example, the pomposity and self righteousness is incredibly confrontational, the whole article is just one long 'Fuck You' to anyone who does not agree with the political leanings of the author. In fact to use your words the article was pigeon holing and bullshit and the author being a fluffy bunny.</p>
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<p>And for the record, I think tolerance is a bit of a fools gold, the reality is that that you are not going to be very tolerant of people who treat you like shit, do things you dont like or who are just twats.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="601955" data-time="1470001754">
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<p>Canefan - I wonder how often your rellies boss battened down the hatches and nothing happened...</p>
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<p>Considering his investors are a who's who in NZ business circles I'd say he knows a bit about what he is doing</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="601969" data-time="1470003789">
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<p>A good step towards that goal then would be for people to stop attacking Trump supporters, Brexit supporters etc etc. It seems nowadays tolerance is preached but not actually actioned. Your article is a great example, the pomposity and self righteousness is incredibly confrontational, the whole article is just one long 'Fuck You' to anyone who does not agree with the political leanings of the author. In fact to use your words the article was pigeon holing and bullshit and the author being a fluffy bunny.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And for the record, I think tolerance is a bit of a fools gold, the reality is that that you are not going to be very tolerant of people who treat you like shit, do things you dont like or who are just twats.</p>
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<p>Sorry are you trying to preach tolerance? I read your posts and most people who do not subscribe to your world view are "apologists" or your favourite "regressive leftie" or regressive liberal fluffybunnies</p> -
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<p>Holy shit balls....</p>
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<p>And I don't think anyone is an intellectual liberal that wants to avoid using logic and facts in a debate. <strong>In fact I would argue that the author is not an intellectual liberal at all, but a regressive leftie</strong>.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="601982" data-time="1470004680">
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<p>Sorry are you trying to preach tolerance? I read your posts and most people who do not subscribe to your world view are "apologists" or your favourite "regressive leftie" or regressive liberal fluffybunnies</p>
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<p>Read my post again. The last sentence in particular might assist you.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="601981" data-time="1470004613">
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<p>Considering his investors are a who's who in NZ business circles I'd say he knows a bit about what he is doing</p>
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<p>Wasn't suggesting he doesn't but no one ever gets it right every time and for every story about someone with a premonition about getting off the doomed flight there's 100 embarrassed fools who didn't get away on their holiday</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="canefan" data-cid="601984" data-time="1470004859">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="601872" data-time="1469935510">
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<p>Holy shit balls....</p>
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<p>And I don't think anyone is an intellectual liberal that wants to avoid using logic and facts in a debate. <strong>In fact I would argue that the author is not an intellectual liberal at all, but a regressive lefti</strong></p>
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<p>And I stand by that, saying that logic and facts should not be used in a debate of ideas is indicative....</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="601986" data-time="1470005052">
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<p>Wasn't suggesting he doesn't but no one ever gets it right every time and for every story about someone with a premonition about getting off the doomed flight there's 100 embarrassed fools who didn't get away on their holiday</p>
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<p>And plenty of people predicted the last crash.. not a huge number.. but the next challenge was getting the actual timing right. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="dogmeat" data-cid="601986" data-time="1470005052"><p>Wasn't suggesting he doesn't but no one ever gets it right every time and for every story about someone with a premonition about getting off the doomed flight there's 100 embarrassed fools who didn't get away on their holiday</p></blockquote>Oh for sure. Experience just gives you the ability to potentially learn from more mistakes. But it doesn't stop you from making new ones
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="601969" data-time="1470003789">
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<p><strong>A good step towards that goal then would be for people to stop attacking Trump supporters, Brexit supporters etc etc.</strong> It seems nowadays tolerance is preached but not actually actioned. Your article is a great example, the pomposity and self righteousness is incredibly confrontational, the whole article is just one long 'Fuck You' to anyone who does not agree with the political leanings of the author. In fact to use your words the article was pigeon holing and bullshit and the author being a fluffy bunny.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And for the record, I think tolerance is a bit of a fools gold, the reality is that that you are not going to be very tolerant of people who treat you like shit, do things you dont like or who are just twats.</p>
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<p>You must be kidding right... I'm sure this was meant as a joke.</p>
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<p>This statement is so much like the Christian Fundies in the US who keep talking about a "war on christianity".</p>
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<p>You surely must see that the instigators of most of the attacks have been the Trump and Brexit supporters who saw the debate as an excuse to let lose all of their ignorance and prejudices. They see that behavior from Trump and the leaders of the Exit movement and they saw it is a mandate to let lose their own bile and venom.</p>
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<p>Then when people call them out on their bullshit, they act like the victim.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JK" data-cid="602035" data-time="1470010941">
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<p>Was watching this a few nights ago. Also dam interesting...</p>
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<p>Putin is not a madman, he is a smart so-and-so, but his interests are in opposition to the US. So it would make me nervous that he is keen for Trump to win the election</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="601989" data-time="1470005131">
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<p>And I stand by that, saying that logic and facts should not be used in a debate of ideas is indicative....</p>
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<p>have you actually read it now then? because if so then you are not understanding that point. it is pretty clear from the context that that statement is saying that the rhetoric of people like trump - scaremongering, and generally not using facts or logic - isn't being defeated by the use of facts and logic. i.e. 'his' side needs to fight the same way.</p>
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<p>it's fine to disagree with the points in the article, there's lots i disagree with - but you're just taking a soundbite out of context to make a specious point.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="RoninWC" data-cid="602034" data-time="1470010856">
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<p>You must be kidding right... I'm sure this was meant as a joke.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>This statement is so much like the Christian Fundies in the US who keep talking about a "war on christianity".</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You surely must see that the instigators of most of the attacks have been the Trump and Brexit supporters who saw the debate as an excuse to let lose all of their ignorance and prejudices. They see that behavior from Trump and the leaders of the Exit movement and they saw it is a mandate to let lose their own bile and venom.</p>
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<p>Then when people call them out on their bullshit, they act like the victim.</p>
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<p>Not at all. It is all a matter of perspective. I think there is very little tolerance from any side nowadays. </p>
<p>You seriously think that there is tolerance towards people who support Trump? You just called them ignorant and prejudiced... people who loosed vile and venom... and who spoke bullshit. if that is what yuo think.. fair enough.. and your views are held by many others. But it is the very opposite of tolerance. And indeed those whom you attack probably see it as the prejudiced ignorance... bile and venom.. bullshit even. But of course you would deny that as you consider yourself correct. But so do they.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="602048" data-time="1470013826">
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<p>have you actually read it now then? because if so then you are not understanding that point. it is pretty clear from the context that that statement is saying that the rhetoric of people like trump - scaremongering, and generally not using facts or logic - isn't being defeated by the use of facts and logic. i.e. 'his' side needs to fight the same way.</p>
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<p>it's fine to disagree with the points in the article, there's lots i disagree with - but you're just taking a soundbite out of context to make a specious point.</p>
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<p>I have read it yes. And yes I understand the point thanks. And I still think it is a slanted argument using slanted points of reference. Maybe facts and logic are not winning the argument because those facts and logic are not correct? And are in fact just ideology?</p>
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<p>But ok... you can think that the way to defeat bad ideas is to avoid facts and logic. </p>
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<p>Scaremongering? Every side is scaremongering! have seen the comments by Clinton and her supporters about what would happen if Trump won? </p> -
<p>I have moved posts to US election thread.</p>
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<a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/britain-is-too-awful-for-cultured-and-sexually-skilful-remain-voters-like-me-20160801111657">http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/features/britain-is-too-awful-for-cultured-and-sexually-skilful-remain-voters-like-me-20160801111657</a><br><br>
"By Some Tiresome Fucker"<br><br>
Just to cheer you all up -
<p>The thing is if we are talking about a <strong><em>world war</em></strong>, I get how that can start in 2 places - the South China Sea, and the Baltic states.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its a very short join the dots to get from either of those to WW3</p>
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<p>What I don't get is how you go from appeasemernt of ISIS to world war? World war against who? Russia and the US are co-ordinating in Syria against IS, China has zero involvement. Europe & the US are not threatened at all, nor is Russia, certainly not in a "we could all be destroyed" point of view as in WW1 & WW2. Even in the middle East Israel is currently co-operating with Jordan, Egypt & Saudi (!)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The actual threat posted by radical islam is tiny. Spectacular, but tiny.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In contrast its incredibly easy to go from Trump presidency - recognise the annexing of Crimea - announce US will only support Nato if Nato spends the 2% on defence it commited to - Nato very much does not - Putin does to Estonia what he did to Ukraine - UK jet shoots down Russian jet in Lithuanian airspace etc... to major geopolitical conflict</p>
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<p>Same in the South China Sea with China attacking the Phillipines. Can anyone step from "appease Islam a bit" to "Nukes in the air!"?</p>
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<p>Both world wars kicked off because a country thought it could get away with a limited attack but treaty cascades broadened it. So anything that makes treaties look shakey is a bad thing. IE Germany calculated that the UK would not actually honor its treaty obligations, as it had backed away from conflict over German rearmament, the Rhineland, Austria etc. If China or Russia believe the US or Western europe will not honor its treatly obligations those threaties become a potential flashpoint. </p>
Another World War imminent?