RWC QF: France v South Africa
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It would be so much easier if we just ditched the intentional knock-on rule. If you can get to the ball from an onside position, good for you. Most likely you're probably going to try and catch it, but if you can't catch it you can disrupt the play by knocking the ball down - if it goes forward, attacking scrum awarded.
Easy
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I see Nigel Owens has come out to clarify that a players hands can be on the ground as long as the ref does not think that hand is supporting the players weight. So BOK may have thought that Smith was supporting his own bodyweight even though his hand was on the ground.
Just another level of nuance the ref has to deal with, but not such an obvious error that everyone is calling out.
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@Toddy said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Why else would you put your hand on the ground? Surely using two hands to pilfer is better than using one. Unless you need to use one to keep balance
Exactly. I read that Nigel tweet exchange and he’s technically right about what the penalty can be called for “not supporting weight”, but as a ref you’d have to be a mind reader to know that a player who physically has their hand on the ground is not using it to support their weight in the body position they use to compete for the ball.
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@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
It would be so much easier if we just ditched the intentional knock-on rule. If you can get to the ball from an onside position, good for you. Most likely you're probably going to try and catch it, but if you can't catch it you can disrupt the play by knocking the ball down - if it goes forward, attacking scrum awarded.
Easy
All would be solved if they applied it the way league do it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
It would be so much easier if we just ditched the intentional knock-on rule. If you can get to the ball from an onside position, good for you. Most likely you're probably going to try and catch it, but if you can't catch it you can disrupt the play by knocking the ball down - if it goes forward, attacking scrum awarded.
Easy
All would be solved if they applied it the way league do it.
there is zero reason for the current law/interpretation. And it just adds more grey areas for people to whinge about
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@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Didn't O'Keefe say he was clearly trying to hook it back or catc it. I did tgink his hand was hooked in front of the ball.
He did say that but the actual outcome from my view is that the ball went forward. The intent of the action may count for something but what actually happens matter.
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@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Didn't O'Keefe say he was clearly trying to hook it back or catc it. I did tgink his hand was hooked in front of the ball.
He did say that but the actual outcome from my view is that the ball went forward. The intent of the action may count for something but what actually happens matter.
I thought it was intention was all that mattered. If the ref thinks you are genuinely trying to catch ball it becomes a knock on doesn't it? That was my understanding, but maybe I got it wrong. (wouldn't be first time). Think O'Keefe said it went forward, and didn't he signal a scrum?
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@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Didn't O'Keefe say he was clearly trying to hook it back or catc it. I did tgink his hand was hooked in front of the ball.
He did say that but the actual outcome from my view is that the ball went forward. The intent of the action may count for something but what actually happens matter.
I thought it was intention was all that mattered. If the ref thinks you are genuinely trying to catch ball it becomes a knock on doesn't it? That was my understanding, but maybe I got it wrong. (wouldn't be first time). Think O'Keefe said it went forward, and didn't he signal a scrum?
Intention comes into for a YC. The fact that no knock on was called is my problem.
Eztebeth was behind the 5m mark when he hit the ball and the ball ends up in front of the 5m mark. Play on according tO BOK
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https://x.com/thezingone/status/1714150354047340834?s=46&t=WpEhcpdLKDqfjTjGW5QqaA
Forget the Aaron Smith comparison (apples and oranges in my view) but just look at the Eztebeth video.
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@ACT-Crusader if Sam Whitelock had done the same thing, would you be expecting a yellow card and a penalty try, just a penalty, a scrum knock on or play on?
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I think that clearly shows the deflection off the knee. Pulled backwards by the hand first
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I think Smiths looked like he just threw the hand out in reflex, Etzebeth looked like he was trying to hook it back and looked like it hit his leg.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Billy-Tell said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Gutted. Staying with my French mate who was also my best man. Really wanted fra vs nz final. Especially as we had tickets to 2007 and had to sit thru eng va sa.
Could have been worse. You could have had tickets to the Fr NZ quarter...
Or the NZ England semi …
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@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
I think Smiths looked like he just threw the hand out in reflex, Etzebeth looked like he was trying to hook it back and looked like it hit his leg.
Agree - but Etzebeths is weird, why hook it back? If that was me, I’d have caught the thing and run 95m to score between the posts
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@voodoo said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
I think Smiths looked like he just threw the hand out in reflex, Etzebeth looked like he was trying to hook it back and looked like it hit his leg.
Agree - but Etzebeths is weird, why hook it back? If that was me, I’d have caught the thing and run 95m to score between the posts
If that was me, I’d have caught the thing and run 0.95m to
score between the postsget smashed to bits by some Maori kid much bigger and faster than meAh those were the days
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@taniwharugby said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
I think Smiths looked like he just threw the hand out in reflex, Etzebeth looked like he was trying to hook it back and looked like it hit his leg.
Did it though?
I’ve watched replay after replay in both slow mo’s and normal speed and I think it’s inconclusive.
I wanted the Boks to lose and I’m searchin….
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@chimoaus said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Canes4life said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
The angle no one saw. Bloody questionable.
74K views · 13K reactions | The angle you didn't see 😳 #rugby...
The angle you didn't see 😳 #rugby #rugbyworldcup #worldcup #springboks #cheslinkolbe #sarugby #motivation.
I thought it odd at the time they did not check it, perhaps they simply did not have the footage but you would think that would be standard. Anytime someone can block a conversion surely they need to check if they were onside. I guess we will never know if he would have kicked the conversion but that is not the point. I do wonder if they will introduce the offside technology they use in soccer in Rugby when chasing kicks etc.
Andy Goode reckons that Ramos should have just stood (he hadn't taken a step). Barnes would have been forced to order a no charge take/retake.
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@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@ACT-Crusader said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
@Dan54 said in RWC QF: France v South Africa:
Didn't O'Keefe say he was clearly trying to hook it back or catc it. I did tgink his hand was hooked in front of the ball.
He did say that but the actual outcome from my view is that the ball went forward. The intent of the action may count for something but what actually happens matter.
I thought it was intention was all that mattered. If the ref thinks you are genuinely trying to catch ball it becomes a knock on doesn't it? That was my understanding, but maybe I got it wrong. (wouldn't be first time). Think O'Keefe said it went forward, and didn't he signal a scrum?
Worthy of a different thread but IMO the rulings on 'deliberate' knock ons are pants.
For me:
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Genuine attempt: scrum;
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Dubious attempt, disrupts attack: penalty;
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Dubious attempt, try saving, or blatant attempt: yellow card.
So EE scrum, Nuggie penalty, Owen Farrell yellow.
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