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@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
"Read its polluting during its lifetime"...in what way?
I can't find the article now/ But it's to do with fiberglass giving of a toxic substance (styrene?)
Many wind turbine blades are made of fiberglass and some only had a lifetime of 10 to 20 years.[23] Previously, there was no market for recycling these old blades,[24] and they were commonly disposed of in landfills.[25] Because blades are hollow, they take up a large volume compared to their mass. Since 2019, some landfill operators have begun requiring blades to be crushed before being landfilled.[23] Blades manufactured in the 2020s are more likely to be designed to be completely recyclable.[25]
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@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@antipodean said in Climate Change:
Well I managed at least one actual example.
Don't want to jump in on your debate with @voodoo , but wasn't Hornsdale in SA a successful battery? Or have I just read some propaganda somewhere?
Its primary function is to prevent the interconnect to Victoria from falling over, something my elec engineer mate calls system inertia, which it does very well I might add, but it doesn't really dispatch energy to households etc. like we expect of storage.
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@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@voodoo said in Climate Change:
@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@antipodean said in Climate Change:
Well I managed at least one actual example.
Don't want to jump in on your debate with @voodoo , but wasn't Hornsdale in SA a successful battery? Or have I just read some propaganda somewhere?
There are plenty, see NTA's post above.
Yes, it's an impressive map but the "successful" bit I felt was quite important.
They all work as advertised or are there issues? Cost overruns, that sort of thing?
Cost overruns on co-located batteries would be negligible, they're largely plug and play? The bigger issue is whether they have earned their keep on the revenue side if they were relying on energy arbitrage to any extent. Neoen's one in particular has been hugely successful - as has Neoen as a company to be fair, they've done some great stuff in a short period and are a good bunch of guys (I was fairly close to them in a previous life).
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@Winger said in Climate Change:
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
"Read its polluting during its lifetime"...in what way?
I can't find the article now/ But it's to do with fiberglass giving of a toxic substance
... Blades manufactured in the 2020s are more likely to be designed to be completely recyclable.[25]*
so at very least that issue looks like it is in the process of being addressed
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@voodoo said in Climate Change:
@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@voodoo said in Climate Change:
@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@antipodean said in Climate Change:
Well I managed at least one actual example.
Don't want to jump in on your debate with @voodoo , but wasn't Hornsdale in SA a successful battery? Or have I just read some propaganda somewhere?
There are plenty, see NTA's post above.
Yes, it's an impressive map but the "successful" bit I felt was quite important.
They all work as advertised or are there issues? Cost overruns, that sort of thing?
Cost overruns on co-located batteries would be negligible, they're largely plug and play? The bigger issue is whether they have earned their keep on the revenue side if they were relying on energy arbitrage to any extent. Neoen's one in particular has been hugely successful - as has Neoen as a company to be fair, they've done some great stuff in a short period and are a good bunch of guys (I was fairly close to them in a previous life).
Yeah I guess they are reasonably fixed in price. Seem to recall something about the SA one and Elon regarding cost, but that might have been a time guarantee overrun, not price. Think it was sorted anyway.
The second bit was my "that sort of thing" regarding whether they are actually achieving their goals. It seems they are, thanks. I would hope that all the "being constructed" and "proposed" on Nick's map wouldn't be going ahead if not. Then again it's big projects so they might regardless...
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@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@voodoo said in Climate Change:
@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@voodoo said in Climate Change:
@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@antipodean said in Climate Change:
Well I managed at least one actual example.
Don't want to jump in on your debate with @voodoo , but wasn't Hornsdale in SA a successful battery? Or have I just read some propaganda somewhere?
There are plenty, see NTA's post above.
Yes, it's an impressive map but the "successful" bit I felt was quite important.
They all work as advertised or are there issues? Cost overruns, that sort of thing?
Cost overruns on co-located batteries would be negligible, they're largely plug and play? The bigger issue is whether they have earned their keep on the revenue side if they were relying on energy arbitrage to any extent. Neoen's one in particular has been hugely successful - as has Neoen as a company to be fair, they've done some great stuff in a short period and are a good bunch of guys (I was fairly close to them in a previous life).
Yeah I guess they are reasonably fixed in price. Seem to recall something about the SA one and Elon regarding cost, but that might have been a time guarantee overrun, not price. Think it was sorted anyway.
The second bit was my "that sort of thing" regarding whether they are actually achieving their goals. It seems they are, thanks.
A good way to tell is the decreasing cost of electricity provision in Australia...
It may well get to a point where it becomes economical for households to bolt batteries on to their solar. I know a number of people doing it already where I live and they either forecast it to break even based on current trend or they want to utilise arbitrage opportunities.
I'm seriously considering it and expanding my system because energy is only going to get more expensive for retail customers. Add a EV for the tax breaks and the poor can eat cake or something.
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I had a very nice setup with battery arbitrage until offpeak rates climbed as high as peak rates - since switched to single rate.
The arbitrage opportunity now is governed by market forces, so while the battery thing looks way better than it was when I bought back in 2016, it still requires a bit of smarts around how to get the most out of it.
Amber electric are one provider who will take your excess at market rate BUT if you get stuck on a shitty day you'll also pay market rate...
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@Snowy said in Climate Change:
@antipodean said in Climate Change:
Well I managed at least one actual example.
wasn't Hornsdale in SA a successful battery? Or have I just read some propaganda somewhere?
Early adopter has pros and cons.
Price per MWh would have been relatively high compared to today, but the money they made just from FCAS (Frequency Control Ancillary Services) paid for the installation, because it was more responsive than anything on the network.
Previously you'd have a gas turbine on standby for such a problem, and you're talking more in the "minutes" rather than "seconds" category.
Hornsdale was so fast the market operator couldn't identify the first few milliseconds coming online, and therefore didn't actually pay the full amount.
BUT the issue with more batteries, is more competition for FCAS and other ancillary services that fast-response provides. Therefore the opportunities to maximise your value is challenged. Free market!
At this point, large batteries are calling the tune in the same way gas used to - bid in last, bid in high, get everyone a ridiculous price.
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@Winger said in Climate Change:
@Kiwiwomble said in Climate Change:
solar farm
Solar farms are ugly too. As are these solar panel
The issue I have with wind turbines is they can be seen for miles. Whereas Coal etc. is lower down so can't be
Mini nukes are better still. The plan here is to bury them underground surrounded by concrete. Switch them on and leave them for 15 or so years until the energy runs out. Then leave them for 6 months (to cool down) and then recondition in a factory. And recycle the small amount of nuclear waste (after 99+% has been used)
A brilliant solution. Sound almost too good to be true. Of course, the almost soulless leaders who promote wind and solar will be against this option. They seem to thrive on ugliness and stupidity.
It does sound awesome! not sure if you saw this recently (obviously just one company,
but one that had their reactor approved in US I believe) -
Any reason why Australia hasn't gone full solar for all it's energy needs?
If Musk says 100 miles by 100 miles for entire USA, then in theory you should only need 20-25 miles for Australia. Given the amount of sun and arid land, isn't this a straight no brainer? What am I missing?
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@nostrildamus said in Climate Change:
@broughie said in Climate Change:
Except that energy has to be stored, at times?, and you are most likely buying that battery/storage device or energy harvester from China so there will be dependence there.
If only someone had thought of a car that had a large battery capable of storing energy from home solar then feeding it back when needed!
I think I was referring more to the dependence on China for the products, not that it doesn't exist.
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@MiketheSnow said in Climate Change:
Heres another review on sea level schnages
Main Findings
1 The perceived “accelerations” have been reducing month on month since peaking in Jan 2020.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/05/03/sea-level-rise-and-fall-slowing-down-to-speed-up/
Is sea level rising? Yes, of course it is. It has been rising since about 1750-1775, coinciding with the end of the Little Ice Age. This is widely accepted as shown below:
Boon and Nerem (and here). Both of these accomplished scientists have been publishing paper after paper (Nerem here, Boon here) claiming they have detected the sea level rise acceleration that we do not see in the tide gauge records.
I have discussed Boon and VIMS in the past. SEA LEVEL: Rise and Fall – Part 5: Bending the Trend.
I have written about the efforts of R. Steven Nerem at CIRES (Cooperative Institute for Research in Environmental Sciences at the University of Colorado Boulder) and a major player at their Sea Level Group. Nerem is convinced that sea level rise must be accelerating. He has written papers and presentations and mostly convinced the IPCC and policy makers that that acceleration (by which he means sea level is rising faster and faster) it actually taking place in the real world in which we live and breathe.
Before we go on, readers should be aware of the potential bias in all of Nerem’s work:
Here is the money question, from a climate pragmatist viewpoint:
If neither the satellite altimetry record of sea level rise or the best tide gauge records around the world show any acceleration in the rate of sea level rise…..is the reported Sea Level Rise Acceleration just a construct of biased interpretation of the data?
Bottom Lines:
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Globally sea level is rising. It has been rising since the end of the Little Ice Age and will continue to do so unless there is a major change in the planetary climate leading to another similar cold period.
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There is no good, sufficient or convincing evidence that global sea level rise is accelerating – there is only hypothesis and speculation. Computation is not evidence and unless the results can be practically viewed and measured in the physical world, such results must not be presented as such.
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It is not scientifically legitimate to splice tide gauge records to satellite records – ever – as they measure different physical things. As the tide gauge record extends to the present and continues to improve in quality, it should stand alone. Tide gauge records apply only to the locality of the tide gauge and its Relative Sea Level.
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The global tide gauge record is quantitatively problematic, but individual records can be shown as qualitative evidence for a lack of sea level rise acceleration.
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Sea level and sea level rise are part of the modern scientific controversy generally known as Global Warming or, more recently, Climate Change. Most facts presented in discussions on all sides of the issues involved are more than likely to be opinions and, as always, opinions vary. Wildly.
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Only actually measured, validated raw data can be trusted and even then, you have to really understand what has been measured, exactly, and how it has been measured. One such example is the original data record of your local tide gauge – unadjusted, untampered-with, un-averaged.
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@MajorRage said in Climate Change:
Any reason why Australia hasn't gone full solar for all it's energy needs?
If Musk says 100 miles by 100 miles for entire USA, then in theory you should only need 20-25 miles for Australia. Given the amount of sun and arid land, isn't this a straight no brainer? What am I missing?
we're heading towards the combo of solar and wind, loads and loads of new solar/wind farms being made in vitoria...just take time
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On you're micro v macro opinion.
I was interested in listening to interview on RNZ about a month ago with the CEO of WEL Networks that have installed the BESS at Huntly.
He said that he expected the battery life of the batteries in their BESS to last 30 years. (As opposed to 10 years in an EV or ? years attached to a house). Whether that ends up being accurate or not, I don't know. I assume there is zero 30 year-old BESS in the world.
He didn't go into specifics that I remember, maybe just about efficiencies.
I assume a BESS totally dedicated to a static supply during peak periods can consistenty charge to full and discharge to empty twice a day. Minimising recharging cycles. (I don't know the science, just presuming ...)
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@NTA It's occurred in Texas and Germany where unseasonably cold weather has frozen up the wind turbines and iced over the solar panels meaning electricity generation from your renewables comes to a stop whilst demand for electricity goes through the roof as it's unseasonably cold.
If you then don't have enough fossil fuel or nuclear or other generation available the grid comes under immense pressure.
This is one of the reason's why Germany's gone back to coal.
Granted it's not a problem you Aussies need to worry about.
You're idea of taxing billionaires to build nuclear power plants sounds like a great one to me.
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@MajorRage said in Climate Change:
Any reason why Australia hasn't gone full solar for all it's energy needs?
If Musk says 100 miles by 100 miles for entire USA, then in theory you should only need 20-25 miles for Australia. Given the amount of sun and arid land, isn't this a straight no brainer? What am I missing?
It's prohibitively expensive.
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@antipodean said in Climate Change:
@MajorRage said in Climate Change:
Any reason why Australia hasn't gone full solar for all it's energy needs?
If Musk says 100 miles by 100 miles for entire USA, then in theory you should only need 20-25 miles for Australia. Given the amount of sun and arid land, isn't this a straight no brainer? What am I missing?
It's prohibitively expensive.
not to mention the length of cabling required.
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@mariner4life which is why aus is building lots of smaller ones closer to demand
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@Windows97 said in Climate Change:
taxing billionaires to build nuclear power plants
good luck taxing them! Billionaires tend to be very slippery ... the idea always sounds great, but is hard in practice.
Climate Change