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    What is the best AB Midfield?

    Sports Talk
    allblacks
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    • C
      Centreman last edited by Duluth

      I haven't seen our midfield operate with clinical precision for some time and it appears they are not coping with 'rush' defence or close inspection of our 10-12-13 numbers.
      There's plenty of support for SBW especially after the last Test, however, I just wonder if he is one of the major reasons why Crotty or ALB are contained effectively.
      Maybe a combination of ALB at 12 and Crotty outside, or maybe after we see more of Goodhue it could well be ALB at 12 with Goodhue outside.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Tim
        Tim last edited by

        Eliminating ALB is the first step in making that decision.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • C
          Centreman last edited by

          ...and replaced by who????

          Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Tim
            Tim @Centreman last edited by

            @centreman Anyone else.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • C
              Centreman last edited by

              OK...just as a left field one...why not slot Jordie in at 12 when he comes back???

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • Tim
                Tim last edited by

                I really like the look of Goodhue, but he may face the second season blues next year, as ALB did this year. Goodhue looks like a more physically robust player though.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • C
                  Centreman last edited by

                  @tim said in WHAT IS THE BEST AB MIDFIELD COMBINATION:

                  I really like the look of Goodhue, but he may face the second season blues next year, as ALB did this year. Goodhue looks like a more physically robust player though.

                  Yes but that doesn't solve the question of #12 which is where I feel the AB's have a problem of quick decisive distribution.
                  What I would really like to see is Laumape at 12 with Goodhue outside him.....would be interesting to see if it would work.
                  Both have had exceptional seasons, but untried at Test level.

                  No Quarter 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • taniwharugby
                    taniwharugby last edited by

                    Goodhue slotted into 12 seamlessly at NPC this year, although it is only NPC....is a pretty solid unit though.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Bovidae
                      Bovidae last edited by

                      The best performed AB midfield combo in the last 2 years has been Crotty (12) and ALB (13).

                      ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                      • ACT Crusader
                        ACT Crusader @Bovidae last edited by

                        @bovidae said in WHAT IS THE BEST AB MIDFIELD COMBINATION:

                        The best performed AB midfield combo in the last 2 years has been Crotty (12) and ALB (13).

                        Agree. And the Crotty/Fekitoa one wasn’t far behind either.

                        SBW was always going to come back into the fray once fit. Hansen and co see more upside than what he may not be doing that grated on some fans.

                        At this point it appears they see SBW/Crotty as the first choice combo. But they are only in their first season of playing together as a combo, so as should be expected there have been ups and downs. I think there are question marks about what the will be for this combo.

                        Prior to 2008 we had the veritable revolving door for a good 6 years. And even after the cartel settled on Nonu/Smith, they were trying others in there at various points e.g. Kahui, Toeava, Stanley, Ranger, SBW, Bender. So Hansen at least is not afraid to try some things out and I think this tour we’ll see a few different things. I wouldn’t mind seeing a SBW/Laumape combo for instance. That could be SBW/Fruean circa 2011 Crusaders mark II.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • C
                          Centreman last edited by

                          My only problem with Crotty is that while he has the goods, he seldom lasts more than a couple of tests before he is injured. He just doesn't seem durable .
                          Laumape/Goodhue is one I would like to see operate for a few games....maybe we may see that over the coming weeks or next year.
                          Whatever happens, my concern is that we need a settled combination pretty soon as time is running out before the RWC. There needs to be extended game time with the same combination ala Nonu/Smith, which is a given that it was quite unique to have their extended period as a settled combination in Super and at Test level.

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                          • Bones
                            Bones last edited by

                            Cue Laumape and Goodhue running into a string of injuries over the next couple of years...

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                            • Billy Tell
                              Billy Tell last edited by

                              Long time reader, first time poster.

                              McKenzie 12, Sopoaga 13.

                              Reckon it's worth a go.

                              Bones 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Bones
                                Bones @Billy Tell last edited by

                                @billy-tell outside Dagg. A Savea in 23.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • canefan
                                  canefan last edited by

                                  Crotty is first name on the sheet in the MF. It's just a matter of who's with him. I agree with those that thought ALB Crotty was good. I'd like to see them given opportunity on the tour

                                  KiwiMurph 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • MN5
                                    MN5 last edited by

                                    This post is deleted!
                                    canefan 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • canefan
                                      canefan @MN5 last edited by

                                      This post is deleted!
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                                      • KiwiMurph
                                        KiwiMurph @canefan last edited by KiwiMurph

                                        @canefan said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                        Crotty is first name on the sheet in the MF. It's just a matter of who's with him.

                                        yeah....especially after the Brisbane Bledisloe.......

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • No Quarter
                                          No Quarter @Centreman last edited by No Quarter

                                          @centreman said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                          @tim said in WHAT IS THE BEST AB MIDFIELD COMBINATION:

                                          I really like the look of Goodhue, but he may face the second season blues next year, as ALB did this year. Goodhue looks like a more physically robust player though.

                                          Yes but that doesn't solve the question of #12 which is where I feel the AB's have a problem of quick decisive distribution.
                                          What I would really like to see is Laumape at 12 with Goodhue outside him.....would be interesting to see if it would work.
                                          Both have had exceptional seasons, but untried at Test level.

                                          I agree, both are hugely exciting talents, but both are probably a couple of years away and a lot can happen in that time. But like you I'd love to see them together, I think they'd compliment each other in a similar way to Nonu and Smith.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • taniwharugby
                                            taniwharugby last edited by

                                            I wonder if ALB has put on a bit much size, because he looks bigger and if so, maybe affected his game a touch?

                                            Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • Tim
                                              Tim @taniwharugby last edited by

                                              @taniwharugby He's been noticeably slow after taking a gap this year.

                                              ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • C
                                                Crash last edited by Crash

                                                It's not just precision we need but incision.Tired of playing safe. My vote goes to Laumape and Goodhue, time to unshackle the beast...

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                                                • ACT Crusader
                                                  ACT Crusader @Tim last edited by

                                                  @tim said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                  @taniwharugby He's been noticeably slow after taking a gap this year.

                                                  Yeah that’s been the most noticeable thing for me this year. When he came on in that Lions test he was getting beat on the outside very easily.

                                                  His power game close in has been good though.

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                                                  • C
                                                    cgrant last edited by

                                                    My prediction for the 2019 RWC : Goodhue (12) - Ioane (13).
                                                    But for 2018, I'd go with Crotty (12) - Goodhue (13).

                                                    nzzp 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • nzzp
                                                      nzzp @cgrant last edited by

                                                      @cgrant said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                      My prediction for the 2019 RWC : Goodhue (12) - Ioane (13).

                                                      Wings as centres eh - that shouldn't cause any issues or send the Fern into a meltdown.

                                                      More chance of Ngatai returning to that level than Ioane coming in I'd say. He's too good out wide.

                                                      mimic 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                      • ACT Crusader
                                                        ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                        The only reasons we would move a quality winger to centre is if the cupboard is bare at centre or said winger loses some pace.

                                                        Can’t see either of those being the case over the next two years.

                                                        I wouldn’t be giving up on the four we have seen so far this year of Crotty, SBW, ALB and Laumape just yet.

                                                        Tim 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                                        • Tim
                                                          Tim @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                          @act-crusader Pretty sure Hansen said last year that they see Ioane as a centre. Centre is arguably a more important position, so why not move the wing?

                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                          • mimic
                                                            mimic @nzzp last edited by

                                                            @nzzp said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                            @cgrant said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                            My prediction for the 2019 RWC : Goodhue (12) - Ioane (13).

                                                            Wings as centres eh - that shouldn't cause any issues or send the Fern into a meltdown.

                                                            More chance of Ngatai returning to that level than Ioane coming in I'd say. He's too good out wide.

                                                            Ioane has played most of his footy as a centre. He was the best centre in the Blues, but I felt they put in Moala on reputation (as an All Black).
                                                            When Ioane played on the wing for the AB's, I thought they were just blooding him in.
                                                            I would still like to see him play centre for the Blues, and move out to the wing for the AB's to accommodate better midfield players, just like how we had Smith/Dagg playing wing even though they're fullbacks. However, if he is the form centre, why not reward his form and play him at centre?

                                                            ACT Crusader 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                                            • ACT Crusader
                                                              ACT Crusader @mimic last edited by

                                                              @mimic he might have been the Blues best, but I thought he struggled there. His read of the play seemed way off test level.

                                                              Even if they see him as a centre it could be a case of the reverse Kahui. They thought he was a centre but he played his best test footy as a winger.

                                                              I would be very reticent to move Ioane given what he’s provided as a winger. IMO he’s had two MOTM performances as a winger this year. Keep it going I’d say.

                                                              Tim A 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                                              • Tim
                                                                Tim @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                @act-crusader He was 19 at the time.

                                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                • C
                                                                  cgrant last edited by

                                                                  There are a lot of very good midfielders but most of them are best suited to the inside position (Laumape, Crotty, Ngatai, SBW) than centre. Goodhue has been outstanding for the Taniwhas as a second 5/8. So why not test Ioane with the "13" jersey if, of course, he plays there with the Blues.

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                                                                  • P
                                                                    pakman last edited by

                                                                    Starting point the five in the squad.

                                                                    Of these one has experience and nous you want on the pitch when the chips are down: Crotty. So for me he's the first pick. But even though on paper he ought to be as at home at 13 as 12 it doesn't seem to have worked out that way, and he was the spanner in the works in Brisbane. Exceptional decision maker at 12 and also makes BB's game management significantly better at 10.

                                                                    Haven't seen enough of Laumape and Goodhue to back them in our best combo. Both young and learning their trade. Goodhue seems to have the skills to develop into a world class 13, which is where we seem to have least depth.

                                                                    SBW had a good game in Brisbane, makes lots of tackles, takes the ball up effectively, and still has some moments of magic. Seems not to be playing his natural game. And game management not a strength, both personally or for his 10. Wise men see him exclusively as a 12, but, as someone posted a week or so ago, I'd like to see how he went at 13 outside Crotty.

                                                                    ALB has a good head on his shoulders and can play both 12 and 13 well. Good passing/offloading skills. Like Crotty, lacks the size to be a good crash baller at test level.

                                                                    I think Crotty/ALB has been the best combo we've seen recently, but lacks the physicality one wants, and that did impede us once oppositions worked it out.

                                                                    I'd like to see SBW/ALB get a decent run over a full game.

                                                                    At the risk of arousing MN5, Ngatai, has the attraction of combining game management with physicality and can pass and kick well. Hope he gets through Maori tour without breaking.

                                                                    In summary, the jury remains out!

                                                                    MN5 Bones 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                    • Crucial
                                                                      Crucial last edited by Crucial

                                                                      Don't discount the possibility of Ngatai/ALB getting a much better run at the Chiefs in 2018, similar to 2016 where they were the form combo.
                                                                      For them, much will depend on how well the new 9/10 setup at the Chiefs goes. If they get smooth delivery they could well re-establish themselves and feature strongly in the AB selectors thoughts. (Edit: same goes for the Crotty/Goodhue opportunity)
                                                                      At the moment the game plan at the ABs seems to insist on having a big 12. The defensive structure looks for that player to kill the opposition back play from going too wide and to capitalise on turnovers by having the rest of the defensive backline in 'half attack/defence' positioning.
                                                                      I don't think it is working as it is killing our own set attack with the opposition getting better and better at slowing down the recycle once our 12 makes the advantage line. A bit more creativity wouldn't go amiss.
                                                                      I do wish someone would teach SBW how to run angles though. His natural instinct is for full frontal aggression. Some Nonu like angles would get him past the first line where his offloading ability could come into play.

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                                                                      • A
                                                                        African Monkey @ACT Crusader last edited by

                                                                        @act-crusader Yup can't say I was a massive fan of Rieko at centre. He went far better once he was shifted out to the wing.

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                                                                        • P
                                                                          pakman @African Monkey last edited by

                                                                          @african-monkey said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                                          @act-crusader Yup can't say I was a massive fan of Rieko at centre. He went far better once he was shifted out to the wing.

                                                                          Rieko was disappointing for Blues, and, given AB record of playing at centre stars in form in other positions , I'd say best leave well enough alone!

                                                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                          • MN5
                                                                            MN5 @pakman last edited by

                                                                            @pakman said in What is the best AB Midfield?:

                                                                            Starting point the five in the squad.

                                                                            Of these one has experience and nous you want on the pitch when the chips are down: Crotty. So for me he's the first pick. But even though on paper he ought to be as at home at 13 as 12 it doesn't seem to have worked out that way, and he was the spanner in the works in Brisbane. Exceptional decision maker at 12 and also makes BB's game management significantly better at 10.

                                                                            Haven't seen enough of Laumape and Goodhue to back them in our best combo. Both young and learning their trade. Goodhue seems to have the skills to develop into a world class 13, which is where we seem to have least depth.

                                                                            SBW had a good game in Brisbane, makes lots of tackles, takes the ball up effectively, and still has some moments of magic. Seems not to be playing his natural game. And game management not a strength, both personally or for his 10. Wise men see him exclusively as a 12, but, as someone posted a week or so ago, I'd like to see how he went at 13 outside Crotty.

                                                                            ALB has a good head on his shoulders and can play both 12 and 13 well. Good passing/offloading skills. Like Crotty, lacks the size to be a good crash baller at test level.

                                                                            I think Crotty/ALB has been the best combo we've seen recently, but lacks the physicality one wants, and that did impede us once oppositions worked it out.

                                                                            I'd like to see SBW/ALB get a decent run over a full game.

                                                                            At the risk of arousing MN5, Ngatai, has the attraction of combining game management with physicality and can pass and kick well. Hope he gets through Maori tour without breaking.

                                                                            In summary, the jury remains out!

                                                                            Aw christ, just stop the fapping!

                                                                            Since when is ALB too small to hit it up? He did this pretty effectively this year.

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                                                                            • rotated
                                                                              rotated last edited by

                                                                              I'm torn between taking a similar approach we did to the right wing in 2015, where we didn't really have the satisfactory answers until Super Rugby threw up Nohalo and NMS in the RWC year - even though we had Dagg and Jane in our back pocket. Just wait and see - plenty of rugby to go and between Super Rugby and happenstance a decent centre combo will shake out eventually.

                                                                              The other side of the coin is given there is so many variables - with most guys in the conversation playing both 12 and 13 (...or 14 or 15) I would almost be inclined to ink one spot in and try and fit the partner around him - which for me would be SBW at 12.

                                                                              Crotty too injury prone and does not have any game breaking quality where you are willing to accept that risk.

                                                                              P 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                                                              • P
                                                                                pakman @rotated last edited by

                                                                                @rotated SBW hardly has any cartilage left in one knee. I don't think we want all our eggs in that basket.

                                                                                TeWaio 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                                                • dogmeat
                                                                                  dogmeat last edited by

                                                                                  I think SBW is a far better bench option than a starter and moving him there would give us an ability to change the focus in that last 20-30 when his weapons should be far more effective against a tiring defence.

                                                                                  He's just not that much better (if at all) than the other starting options but has shown he can be a real asset injected late. He just doesn't have the full range of skills for the structured game but comes into his own big time when the game gets looser.

                                                                                  Unfortunately starting him and then using him as a carthorse means he's less effective in the 4th quarter than coming on fresh.

                                                                                  I do get he is a great bale out option at 2nd 5 and can't fault his work ethic but I feel they are trying to get him to replicate Nonu's game and he just doesn't have the same skills. TBF neither did Ma'a initially but SBW's age is against him there.

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                                                                                  • Bones
                                                                                    Bones @pakman last edited by

                                                                                    @pakman as soon as someone dismisses Crotty as lacking physicality, it makes me start to think they don't really know what they're talking about. When they then throw in ALB in the lacking basket and promptly offer up Ngatai as the opposite, it confirms it.

                                                                                    P MN5 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
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