Exodus 2018
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
As could be expected, all the advocates of allowing capped Pacific players change eligibility to the country of their heritage are up in arms after the news about Pulu's alleged Aussie eligibility.
True dat!
It does highlight the issues in trying to solve the perceived problem of eligibility when they work the other way.
Pulu was born in the US and the US has previously questioned whether he could play for them. He is Niuean by heritage and has played for them. Somewhere along the line he also gained Australian citizenship (which had to be a deliberate application on his part as he wasn't born there) but has also spent his career playing in NZ for NZ sides while residing here full time.
Of all of these things, as far as we know, his Oz ties are the 'lightest' yet somehow the so called strict WR regulations can offer a dispensation there.
If the Niue lock is cut he presumably qualifies for NZ, Oz, Niue, USA and by some accounts Tonga. Oz obviously offers the best combo of earnings and international eligibility.
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@crucial said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
As could be expected, all the advocates of allowing capped Pacific players change eligibility to the country of their heritage are up in arms after the news about Pulu's alleged Aussie eligibility.
True dat!
It does highlight the issues in trying to solve the perceived problem of eligibility when they work the other way.
Pulu was born in the US and the US has previously questioned whether he could play for them. He is Niuean by heritage and has played for them. Somewhere along the line he also gained Australian citizenship (which had to be a deliberate application on his part as he wasn't born there) but has also spent his career playing in NZ for NZ sides while residing here full time.
> Of all of these things, as far as we know, his Oz ties are the 'lightest' yet somehow the so called strict WR regulations can offer a dispensation there.
If the Niue lock is cut he presumably qualifies for NZ, Oz, Niue, USA and by some accounts Tonga. Oz obviously offers the best combo of earnings and international eligibility.
Arguable. Aren't both is parents Aussies?
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@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
@crucial said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
As could be expected, all the advocates of allowing capped Pacific players change eligibility to the country of their heritage are up in arms after the news about Pulu's alleged Aussie eligibility.
True dat!
It does highlight the issues in trying to solve the perceived problem of eligibility when they work the other way.
Pulu was born in the US and the US has previously questioned whether he could play for them. He is Niuean by heritage and has played for them. Somewhere along the line he also gained Australian citizenship (which had to be a deliberate application on his part as he wasn't born there) but has also spent his career playing in NZ for NZ sides while residing here full time.
> Of all of these things, as far as we know, his Oz ties are the 'lightest' yet somehow the so called strict WR regulations can offer a dispensation there.
If the Niue lock is cut he presumably qualifies for NZ, Oz, Niue, USA and by some accounts Tonga. Oz obviously offers the best combo of earnings and international eligibility.
Arguable. Aren't both is parents Aussies?
Thanks, Wasn't aware of that (or when/how long he lived there). Do you have a link for that?
Not disputing, just want to check it out.
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@majorrage said in Exodus 2018:
@crucial not sure where I read it, news articles I'm looking at now just say he's qualifired for Aus through parentage
New Brumbies signing Toni Pulu is eligible to play for the Wallabies
‘Fastest man in NZ rugby’ enters Wallabies frame
That makes more sense considering that he was born in the US and has lived in NZ since age 3. Must have applied for Oz Citizenship by descent despite hardly living there (if at all)
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@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
@mikedogz said in Exodus 2018:
Toni Pulu to Brumbies. Not NZ eligible but an NZ product.
Brumbies sign Chiefs winger Toni Pulu, Henry Speight loaned to Ulster
The ACT Brumbies have signed Waikato Chiefs winger Toni Pulu for the 2019 Super Rugby season.
Locked in for Niue?
You'd think the big NH clubs would come knocking. Not much danger of losing him to test duty.
So ... apparently not. Anyone got any insight into what dispensation could be granted?
Toni Pulu will be eligible to represent the Wallabies, thanks to a dispensation granted by World Rugby.
Pulu holds an Australian passport and despite his history with Niue, a Rugby Australia spokesman told Fox Sports that World Rugby had cleared him to play for Australia if picked by coach Michael Cheika.
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@taniwharugby said in Exodus 2018:
@kiwimurph under what rules has he been granted dispensation, odd decision?
I see that's been brought up ...
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So Aus have poached a winger that barely makes a NZ Super team starting XV. Are we worried about Aussie's depth?
Really want to know how he switches though. Utter crap if he is allowed to.
Wiki shows him representing Nuie over 3 years (2009-2011), mentions 3 tournaments (seemingly confirming @Crucial's posts above), when he'd have been in his 20s (reached the age of majority), and no doubt well aware of eligibility regs.
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@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
Really want to know how he switches though. Utter crap if he is allowed to.
Wiki shows him representing Nuie over 3 years (2009-2011), mentions 3 tournaments (seemingly confirming @Crucial's posts above), when he'd have been in his 20s (reached the age of majority), and no doubt well aware of eligibility regs.
If I had to guess the reason for dispensation.
Pulu was a late developer, didn't go pro until his mid 20s. Played some 7s when Niue came to town, while an amateur club footy player, with no 'realization' of how that would effect his options later on in his late blooming pro career.
Other possibility: Niue may be not a full IRB member at the time he played for them?
Real reason: coz old boys network.
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@rapido said in Exodus 2018:
@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
Really want to know how he switches though. Utter crap if he is allowed to.
Wiki shows him representing Nuie over 3 years (2009-2011), mentions 3 tournaments (seemingly confirming @Crucial's posts above), when he'd have been in his 20s (reached the age of majority), and no doubt well aware of eligibility regs.
If I had to guess the reason for dispensation.
Pulu was a late developer, didn't go pro until his mid 20s. Played some 7s when Niue came to town, while an amateur club footy player, with no 'realization' of how that would effect his options later on in his late blooming pro career.
Other possibility: Niue may be not a full IRB member at the time he played for them?
Real reason: coz old boys network.
Well, I'll be darned
Speedy wing Pulu comes onto Wallabies radar despite 7s caps for Niue
The 28-year-old wing has been impressive for the Chiefs in recent seasons.
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@rapido said in Exodus 2018:
@rapido said in Exodus 2018:
@booboo said in Exodus 2018:
Really want to know how he switches though. Utter crap if he is allowed to.
Wiki shows him representing Nuie over 3 years (2009-2011), mentions 3 tournaments (seemingly confirming @Crucial's posts above), when he'd have been in his 20s (reached the age of majority), and no doubt well aware of eligibility regs.
If I had to guess the reason for dispensation.
Pulu was a late developer, didn't go pro until his mid 20s. Played some 7s when Niue came to town, while an amateur club footy player, with no 'realization' of how that would effect his options later on in his late blooming pro career.
Other possibility: Niue may be not a full IRB member at the time he played for them?
Real reason: coz old boys network.
Well, I'll be darned
Speedy wing Pulu comes onto Wallabies radar despite 7s caps for Niue
The 28-year-old wing has been impressive for the Chiefs in recent seasons.
Can we get World Rugby to retrospectively expunge Western Samoa's dream run at the 1991 RWC after the Niuean prince Frank Bunce turned out for them, in that case?
Just for the LOLs.
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@rapido So basically, if Toni Pulu had played for Niue after the 2014 law change, he would have been deemed (co-)responsible for the eligibility breach and his "capture" might not have been wiped. It seems WR has already sorted this issue years ago. Pulu is just lucky this happened ages ago and Australia may benefit from that if they chose to select him.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@rapido So basically, if Toni Pulu had played for Niue after the 2014 law change, he would have been deemed (co-)responsible for the eligibility breach and his "capture" might not have been wiped. It seems WR has already sorted this issue years ago. Pulu is just lucky this happened ages ago and Australia may benefit from that if they chose to select him.
Yeah, that's how I read it.
I can't think of any post 2014 examples though.
So the Tongan who got Romania disqualified. I still don't know what that means. He is tied to Tonga, or hes responsible for tieing himself to two countries - therefore he is ineligible for neither as both rule each other out?
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@rapido As I understand the rules, that Tongan player is still captured by Tonga (only). He can't have tied himself to two countries; that's impossible under the rules. Because he illegally played for Romania after 2014, it's possible for WR to hold him responsible and impose a sanction on both Romania and the player. I don't know whether a sanction has been imposed on the player (haven't looked it up). Apart from any imposed suspension (for example) , he'd be free to play for Tonga if Tonga decided to select him.
Current law:
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World Rugby statement of clarification: Toni Pulu
World Rugby has moved to correct misleading reports that suggest special dispensation has been granted in respect of Toni Pulu’s eligibility. No such dispensation has been granted to the player because none is required. While a 2014 World Rugby Regulations Committee hearing determined that a breach of Regulation 8 had occurred as Pulu was not eligible for Niue, under the regulation as it was at the time, it was the union, not the player, who was culpable for any breach. The union was therefore sanctioned and the player deemed not to be captured by Niue. The regulation has since been reformed to apply joint culpability for union and player, but it is not retrospectively applied. Therefore, subject to meeting current eligibility criteria set out under Regulation 8, Pulu is free to represent a nation for which he has a close & credible link. -
If Aus has to trawl the depths of NZ Super rugby teams to find eligible players, then that speaks volumes about their own depth in stocks. Pulu is a very good winger but must be remembered he will be 30 next year and does pick up a fair few injuries.Think it says more about their own problems than anything else.
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@stargazer so he played for Niue, but they tricked him so he's now allowed to play for Aus?
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