Let's try again...

NTA

So after several years playing at 120-125kg, this year I've been maintaining my weight around 115kg through caring a bit more about my eating habits and the odd bit of exercise. It is the lowest I've been probably since I got married (bar the odd gastric upset <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' />) and is fairly easy to maintain. 
 
I got to this point by following a few practices in The Spartan Diet which was interesting reading just from a commonsense point of view. Basically took on the running, a few of the body weight exercises, and some of the simpler diet tips. Being a married man I don't have a lot of control over what goes into the meals around here, but I'm working on it and cutting portions where necessary. 
 
So I've got a preliminary goal: lose 5kg in two months. If I could get to 110kg before November that would be staggeringly awesome in my books as I haven't been that weight since Uni. If the loss was all body fat, that would be even better. 
 
Standing in my way: questionable willpower in the face of snacks, and an inflamed disc which means no running until that clears up. Also the weather has been utterly shit for exercise, which is a pretty weak excuse but I'm hard enough to motivate without adding cold weather and long wet periods here in Sydney. 
 
[B]The plan[/B] 
 
To make this possible I need to approach it from two different angles: walking and basic weights. 
 
The walking component is a 5km walk a minimum of 3 times per week - preferably 5 times. I was doing 3km runs during lunch at work twice a week, but with the bad back that has broken down. 5km walk is possible after work, and at a brisk pace is in fairly decent fat burning territory without aggravating my back. I'll look like a cock doing it, but I look like a cock being overweight anyway. Once the back settles down I can look at returning to running. 
 
Basic weights takes the form of a few things in the garage/backyard: 
 
[LIST] 
[]I made my own chinup bar using 2 inch pipe. I can bang out about three in one hit which is good when you have an arse my size. Would like to get to 5 and then 10. 
[]Decline pushups 
[]Standing military press 
[]Bicep curls 
[]Bent rows 
[]Squats 
[]Deadlifts 
[]Abs using two targeted exercises from the Spartan Diet book 
[*]Neck (an area often ignored) 
[/LIST] 
Try to get to this three times a week, regardless of whether I've been doing walking on the same day. The squats and deads in particular won't be with very heavy weights, because the back won't support it at the moment and I'm more after generating some muscle tone to a basic level rather than actual strength building. I'll look at a gym membership later in the year (work has a gym for about $300 annually) when things are at a suitable building block level. 
 
The diet component I'm going to leave where it is for now, as I'm comfortable I can maintain it. My issue is once I start exercising my appetite can get out of control so I need to monitor it but not be too harsh with myself. I do need to drink more water though I think, and perhaps cut back a bit on the coffees at work. 
 
So here goes. Again!

dK

Great job NTA. Everyone around here know's that I am a Tabata convert, check them out and incorporate them into your workout regime. If possible get a few sessions with a Personal Trainer, as this has helped me with my 'will power' issues. Good luck with the journey

NTA

Read something similar in research done by the CSIRO scientists - a routine where you go flat out for 12 seconds, then low pace at 8 seconds, and repeat for routines of up to 20 minutes. Interesting. 
 
Also forgot to mention - I'm going to get into more aggressive stretching. I tried to sit with feet together, legs straight in front of me, and reach my toes. It was bloody difficult! So I'm resolved to throw in long stretches to help with my lack of flexibility. 
 
And with my routines I'm going to occasionally break it up a bit with alternatives e.g. sprint sessions once I get the back in order. Basic idea is to have markers at 10m, 25m, 50m, 75m, 100m. Sprint to each marker in turn, walk slowly back to start, and immediately take off for the next one. Do three sets. That is bloody hard speaking from experience, but good for the burst speed and to give the body something to think about anaerobically.

BartMan

sprints are fun in a nutty sort of way! And walking is sweet as a nut - 45 minutes each day is my regime at the moment (of cardio, but walking does best to bring out the muscles in my legs, the odd cycle thrown in for shits and giggles), and does the job. As we all know though, but try to deny, weight loss is 90% of what goes in the gob, a 10% exercise!! or maybe 80/20. As the results come it'll be easier to avoid the snacks! And as you've said on other threads NTA, plan ahead and plan wisely and then the world is your oyster. 
 
A saying on one of my tee shirts - "You can't out-train your diet". Although Sunday week I'm going to out diet my training big time...!! 
 
You'll find your back problems and any other aches and pains vanish in proportion to your weight loss too NTA, I sure as hell did, from 120 kg to the 90 odd I am in the off season. Two different people!

ACT Crusader

Bart - do I get any credit for that T-shirt...... <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> 
 
One of the studies I read was a 24s/36s split of high intensity/rest. It's a 1:1.5 ratio but the length of time was important as these scientists found that the exertion levels would begin to wane around the 20s mark at a 90-95% max intensity. So the notion behind intervals say over 15mins is that go around 80-85% intensity for the 24s and then go to snails pace for 36s would allow sufficient recovery to get back up to that intensity level after.

BartMan

is THAT where I first heard it?! Our trainer loves it!

Kirwan

I have that mantra stuck in my head whenever I get tempted to snack (You can't out-train your diet). 
 
If you want easier results NTA, attack the diet first. Once you get over the change, it becomes easy to maintain and you won't feel hungry. I'm an Oats convert thanks to these guys, eating something like that has stopped me from getting hungry during the morning and I'm full of energy. 
 
Do the one day a week treat day thing, and the rest of it eat cleaner with lots of water. Then do the exercise you enjoy three times a week.

BartMan

yeah, treat thing very important. Roll on end of BB season!! And Oats, now my breakfast of choice, in and or out of season. Added into oats now too K, try blending a couple of egg whites and folding them in at the end with the protein powder and cinnamon, breakfast of champions (I hope it will be anyway)!!!!

BartMan

oh, and on my wife's phone - 'nothing tastes as good as lean and mean feels'. personally, I call bullshit on that one!!

Kirwan

[quote name='BartMan']yeah, treat thing very important. Roll on end of BB season!! And Oats, now my breakfast of choice, in and or out of season. Added into oats now too K, try blending a couple of egg whites and folding them in at the end with the protein powder and cinnamon, breakfast of champions (I hope it will be anyway)!!!![/QUOTE] 
 
Gee, protein plus! I'm blending in the cinnamon and protein powder and chucking on a banana, bloody lovely. I'm actually craving it in the mornings now.

BartMan

it's the most asked question at home, "is it breakfast time yet"...!!!?

MN5

Whilst Bart has posted about diet appoximately 21367 times on the fitness forums he speaks the truth. Why after some oustanding binge drinking efforts last friday I have wound up a week later after deciding not to touch A DROP all week a kg and a half lighter. Pretty happy with that and it should be easier to maintain with no big piss ups on the horizon ( although a trip to the Mt for a week next month with the bro in law might change that, I may have to make a trip across the way for Bart to give me a slap in the chops :knuppel: )

NTA

I can't stand oats unfortunately, and I've tried many times. Think it was Dad's porridge habit that put me off it as a kid...

BartMan

#21368 
 
Don't cook 'em. Have 'em COLD. If you like them soggy, soak overnight. Otherwise throw them all in the bowl in the morning, scoop of protein powder, water, mix and into it. Add a banana or kiwi fruit. and that sir, is the breakfast of the gods. Or lesser deities of some sort...

BartMan

oh, and whole grain rolled oats.

Voltron

Have to back up what the others are saying here about diet, TBH NTA i think youre setting yourself up to fail. If you want to be strong by all means lift weights. If you want to lose weight you have to eat less. I have lost about 18kg in the last 18 months, 10kg of that this year. The majority of that 10 was during 2 2 weeks "binge diets" where i controlled my daily intake to between 6000 and 8000 kilojoules. If i have a moderate calorie controlled diet (aim for 8000kj a day but no more than 10000) i might slowly lose a little weight but i might not, even with 3 weights and 2 BJJ sessions a week. Certainly with a moderate exercise regime the extra calories burned are negligible compared to the excess most people consume. I would think (this bit is a guess) that you have to do upwards of an hour of cardio a day to have a decent weight loss with no modification to diet. On the plus side you could easily drop 5kgs in 2 weeks if you maintained a strict diet.

NTA

I understand the points about diet. I'm only at 115 because I have used a measure of control in the diet. Otherwise I'd still be over 120! 
 
The problem I have with eating restrictions is rebound. I can go hard for a week or two on the eating, but it affects my physical output and I end up making little overall progress. In addition I'm not always in charge of the meal prep so it comes down to portion control regardless. 
 
I'd rather have a decent diet, and build into the cardio and light weights as I go. Makes it easier to sustain IMHO. And I'm not doing weights for strength, studies have shown that cardio by itself is not as effective as weights plus cardio. 
 
I guess in a couple of weeks we'll be able to see if I'm right. <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> 
 
Raw oats? A man's not a horse...

Voltron

Appreciate where youre coming from, and at the end of the day its up to you. Also dont want to come across as negative as any effort to get fit and lose weight gets a big thumbs up from me. Read my trainig log, im going through all aswell. That said, still feel skeptical about your diet, things like "affects my physical output" and "im not always in charge of meal prep" sound like excuses. They may both be true, but if youre motivated to do the business you wont let it stop you. If youre 115kg then i guarantee that your body can function on significantly less than what youre putting in at the moment and if the other people who are doing food prep for you wont alter their own diet to help you then thats pretty shit. 
 
But like i said, dont want to be negative, just want to throw some stuff out there. Good luck mate, look forward to hearing your progress.

mooshld

NTA, 
 
Will agree with the others if you have to cheat, cheat on the exercise never the diet. I found when doing it tracking it really motivated me. Grab yourself a set of digital scales weigh yourself each morning, naked before you have eaten anything, and use either an online website to track your average weight like The hackers diet ([URL="https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/HackDiet/"]https://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/HackDiet/)[/URL] or the physics diet ([URL]http://physicsdiet.com/[/URL]). Even if you dont prescribe to the diets themselves the tools to track will show you how much you are burning more then you require. Those websites are both free as well if you have an android phone you can use an app called Libra it uses the Hackers diet equations but is more convenient then logging in every morning. I use the free version but there is a pay for one as well. 
 
Ohh and post your graphs, before after pics etc.. So we can cheer you on. 
 
Mooshld

NTA

[quote name='mooshld']Ohh and post your graphs, [b]before after pics[/b] etc.. So we can cheer you on.[/QUOTE] 
 
I'll post pics of the scale readout, but that's it.

NTA

[quote name='Voltron']if the other people who are doing food prep for you wont alter their own diet to help you then thats pretty shit. [/QUOTE] 
 
I agree - but the meal prep includes two kids so that is a consideration. The food in itself isn't bad, but it comes down to portion control as I said before. 
 
Plus she's the one I have to get approval for the Silverfern Barbarians so I'll choose my battles...

NTA

115.8kg Monday morning after getting back from a family weekend in our nation's capital. Didn't really overdo it except at breakfast time, and there was a lot of walking and carrying a nearly-4yo which counts as exercise. Consciously watching what I eat in terms of aiming for 8000kj per day, and keeping it high in protein. No more morning and mid-afternoon mocha <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Water is boring as Borey the Boring Boy from Borington...

BartMan

[QUOTE]Water is boring as Borey the Boring Boy from Borington[/QUOTE] 
 
yup! diet coke / coke zero etc i zero calories etc if you want to pucnh it up a bit!!

NTA

Chemical tradeoff though Bartholomew, though the caffeine is a good metaboliser... think I'll just have to sprinkle a bit of lemon juice in there for flavour and chuck in the odd PepsiMax. 
 
Was still 115.8kg Tuesday. 
 
115.0kg this morning - a small victory but even better considering I had a 400gm rump last night at the local and a leftover piece of fish. I abstained from the chips (salad only) except for a couple off the kids plate (checking the temperature!) and a spoonful of ice cream ( ... uh... ok I have no excuse for that one). 
 
Covered a few km walking today as I'm on a training course using public transport for the first time in ages. I forgot how many stone cold foxes ride the train...

ACT Crusader

[quote name='BartMan']is THAT where I first heard it?! Our trainer loves it![/QUOTE] 
 
[url]http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/showthread.php?p=179795[/url] 
 
<img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

NTA

114.7kg this morning. That walking clearly helped, plus I turned down a chocolate cupcake at home last night, much to the disappointment of the cook (try explaining diet to your 3yo daughter!) 
 
Today is a bit of a crunch day. I work 6am-3pm in order to pick up Little Aussie #1 from school, so the body clock is a little out of whack and the cravings will no doubt rear their ugly heads...

NTA

114.0kg even this morning which is kind of astounding, but thanks to chance encounters like the beef salad they had at work, pretty easy to do. 
 
Have realised that I'm taking a fair bit of protein on board and my diet is almost Atkins-like. Can't give up milk though I've cut down a bit... 
 
I know this initial weight loss is the easiest bit, but at this point I haven't engaged in any serious exercise. When that occurs, the appetite will ramp back up and I'll have to clamp down on the eating even harder.

Kirwan

I'd really recommend you not get to concerned about weighing yourself daily, or at least tracking it daily. Grab the value fore sure, and put it in a spreadsheet and then track what you weight each Monday and graph that. It will show the trend better, and you won't disheartened by normal fluctuations that you'll see from day to day. 
 
I think it was Mooshld that put me on to trending even more than that, and has a good formula that smooths it out even more (taking into account the previous ten days I think), so you know that you just have to keep under the trend, not a specific weight to keep on track.

NTA

It isn't so much being paranoid about fluctuations, but more looking at how the weight is tracking in the short term to make sure the diet is right. I'm aiming for <8000kj per day as a lifestyle change and that should deliver results

mooshld

[quote name='Kirwan']I'd really recommend you not get to concerned about weighing yourself daily, or at least tracking it daily. Grab the value fore sure, and put it in a spreadsheet and then track what you weight each Monday and graph that. It will show the trend better, and you won't disheartened by normal fluctuations that you'll see from day to day. 
 
I think it was Mooshld that put me on to trending even more than that, and has a good formula that smooths it out even more (taking into account the previous ten days I think), so you know that you just have to keep under the trend, not a specific weight to keep on track.[/QUOTE] 
 
Yeah it was me because day weights don't mean a thing, the only thing you lose a kilo of in a day is fluid. Sorry to tell you. 
 
Weigh yourself record it and tack it using either the physics diet or hackers diet websites or libra a free android app ( I am sure an apple one exists as well), then you can see your trend, after 10 days it will also show you your average calorie defeict which is useful to know. As long as your daily weight is under your trend line you are heading in the right direction, if its not eat less. 
 
Check out my old fat busting thread to see the kind of graphs that hackers diet produces you can then save them off and attach them to your posts. If you write down all your weights during the week it takes 20 seconds to enter them in the computer. Or if like me you work on computers do it every day when you get in the office.

mooshld

[quote name='NTA']It isn't so much being paranoid about fluctuations, but more looking at how the weight is tracking in the short term to make sure the diet is right. I'm aiming for <8000kj per day as a lifestyle change and that should deliver results[/QUOTE] 
 
Then tracking it is perfect for you as it will show you how close you are to your kj goal as well as show you it moving. 
 
A day result is not short term tracking its a point in time. Its like trying to determine the value of a stock by looking at it opening price. 
 
Also tracking doesn't stop when you reach your goal weight. I track myself now every day to make sure I am keeping in my range, if my trend goes above half a kilo of my desired weight I have a good week and get it back down, same if I go under by .5 I try and eat a bit more the next week to get back to my goal. Have been doing this for nearly 4 years and it has got me from 106 to 78.5 where I have stayed with some minor fluctuations until last month when I decided to drop another 3.5 kg and get down to 75, which I will acheive towards the end of this month. Yeah I get strange looks from people when I come to stay and whip out my scales that I take everywhere with me, but so what I can now maintain the weight I want. No guess work required.

NTA

That is pretty much it mooshld - I just want to be able to do this sort of thing without thinking, but it takes a bit of educating myself in the first place. It is partially willpower but it is just that I like food, and I have to teach myself when is enough, and then learn to live by that. As all the dieticians (who are serious about their work) say: it isn't just about dieting down to a weight and then going back to normal; it is a lifestyle change. 
 
Bit of a pizza binge last night <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Friday treat you could call it. Not unexpectedly, back to 115.0kg this morning, but it has been a good demonstration of the effects of too much food. On the plus side, it means there are no leftovers for me to consume today, so I can clean that slate and start again. 
 
Went back to the chiro and she's impressed with the back recovery, but to be honest I'm not going back to start running again just yet to let it heal fully. Depending on the weather today I might put in a 5km walk or go for a ride for the first time in ages. Otherwise if it closes in I'll start back on the body weights routine.

Kirwan

Mooshld's advice about how to track it really helped motivation-wise for when I dropped the first 8kgs. It's easy to get disheartened if you have a daily track system and have an increase. Whereas if you are tracking the trend, you can ignore normal fluctuations as long as the trend is right. 
 
Really helps get your head in the right space, and it's the same amount of effort to record as what you are doing now. It's just displaying the results in a different way. 
 
As for the Pizza, have a treat day once a week and eat whatever you like. I don't even think about it anymore, just have carved out a new way to eat and I don't consciously think about it anymore.

NTA

113.6kg this morning. Combination of diet and casual exercise (taking the stairs at work, going for the odd walk after lunch) seems to be doing it. No major fatigue at this point despite hving to do some early starts for work.

BartMan

it's the little things that start the weight loss too I reckon NTA, you're doing it right. I remember back to the mid teen 100s weights! That's when i first though 'fuck, I'm getting FAT'. And little steps - literally, I used to be a two pies and a breadroll for lunch kinds of guy. So reduced it to one pie, and then just the bread roll and a sausage roll thing etc. just slowy reduced portion sizes, and with that my size too!! 
 
baby steps, and as K says, it's a lifestyle change. Get your hands on the body for life book - commercial as hell, but good guidelines for the food and eating. The rest is bullshit!

NTA

And its funny, because once I started ignoring everything on the packaging except for the kilojoules figure, it became a damn sight easier. 
 
Example: over here they sell those NZ-made Oaty Slices (can't remember the company). 40g = 657kj or thereabouts, most of which is obviously carb-related, but there is a fair whack of plant fats in there surprisingly. 
Look at a 40g pack of chicken slices, and it is 210kj. 
Look at a 40g pack of salami, and you're talking close to 1000kj. 
 
I love all three but when it comes down to the mood I'm in right now, it is a pretty easy choice. No more trading off protein for carbs or fat, its just a simple equation of energy out versus energy in as others have stated. 
 
113.3kg this morning. 
 
Little Aussie's school concert venue last night had a cafe with few eating options. Took the chilli chicken wrap and only ate about half of it, with a bottle of water. In times past I would have gone the burger n chips with a coke. Mother-in-law did exactly that (water instead of coke), eating one or two chips then passing the cup to me like it was the most generous thing she's ever done. I pushed it back. The funny thing is she's trying to lose weight via Lite n Easy (that preplanned diet thing) and hasn't shifted an inch. 
 
I think I'm now officially at my lightest since meeting my wife. At my wedding I must have been pushing 130kg judging by the video and the fact I can't remember getting a scale reading during that time (because our scales were only accurate below 120) 
 
Won't be updating for a few days as I'm about to go camping out in the Blue Mountains area west of Sydney. Won't be many carbs going around there I must say, but there will be a shedload of protein (bacon, eggs, steak, etc). Might have to buy a few wheat bars to keep pushing it all through <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/invision/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Will get in some bushwalking while I'm there to help burn a few more off. 
 
GO THE WALLABIES!

NTA

Camping trip over. Weighed in at 114.3kg this morning which was a good effort considering the amount of bacon n eggs I ate! Covered about 20km bushwalking on the Saturday which helped. 
 
Got down to about zero overnight where we were, judging by the frost on my brother's swag, but a well-prepared campsite is a beautiful thing. 
 
Can't wait to get back to the great outdoors. Might do an overnight hike now the weather is warming up.

NTA

113.4kg today. 
 
Noticed I'm halfway to the next belt notch and the work pants are getting noticeably baggy. Same as the suit I bought in November last year. I usually buy a size up on what I need anyway, for comfort, but I think I'll need the tailor before too long. 
 
Time to start getting the exercise component into gear on a regular basis, now the weather is warming up. I'm up to four chins just by cracking a few out every time I'm in the garage but want to get to 5 by end of next week.

NTA

Was absolutely starving about 9pm, so fried myself 3 eggs (in a tbsp butter). It tasted fkn great - really hit the spot. 
 
112.9kg this morning. Through the barrier! 
 
Undecided whether to have treat day today or wait until Father's Day this Sunday...

NTA

Touch footy at lunch with some work blokes. Not too strenuous (back is still a little tight) but fun and all contributes to the burn.

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