Has Hansen gone stale?
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Never have I seen us so bereft of ideas as in the last two matches against England and Ireland.
Where were the strategies to compliment the personnel chosen? Any evidence of a game plan to combat conditions and patterns of the NH?
Most glaring and disappointing of all, where was the ability to change the game plan when it was obvious to all it wasn't working i.e. to persist with a kicking game which was woefully ineffectual, against NH teams when this is their meat and drink?
Where has the ceativity gone?
Discuss. -
@shadowtrooper would love to get back on the Fern in 2014.
http://www.allblacks.com/Fixtures/2014
we had a very average season then too -- scraped past England (1 point in Dunners), then drew with Aus, sneaked past SA and lost to Aus in Brisvegas, before sneaking past England at home, and not playing well against Wales or Scotland. I'm pretty sure the Fern went into meltdown too.
I'm not saying we're fine, but it could well be part of a wider strategy. Frankly, the last two weeks the boys looked pretty fatigued. I thought they did amazingly well agianst England (who comes back from15 down at Twickers, ever?) and just didn't get there against a good Irish side.
So, yes maybe stale. But maybe, we're just playing a certain way trying to build some patterns for the RWC.
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The concern for me , was the struggle in our attack against the lions defense last year ,
And against a similar defense last night , there was very little to suggest we have come up with any ideas on how to unlock it .
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@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
The concern for me , was the struggle in our attack against the lions defense last year ,
And against a similar defense last night , there was very little to suggest we have come up with any ideas on how to unlock it .
Yes to the Irish game. But last year we dominated test 1, should have won test 2 but for the red card, and were a didn't referring decision and Savea's hands away from test three.
We set a high bar. It's great, but let's not get too panicked quite yet
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@nzzp said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@shadowtrooper would love to get back on the Fern in 2014.
http://www.allblacks.com/Fixtures/2014
we had a very average season then too -- scraped past England (1 point in Dunners), then drew with Aus, sneaked past SA and lost to Aus in Brisvegas, before sneaking past England at home, and not playing well against Wales or Scotland. I'm pretty sure the Fern went into meltdown too.
I'm not saying we're fine, but it could well be part of a wider strategy. Frankly, the last two weeks the boys looked pretty fatigued. I thought they did amazingly well agianst England (who comes back from15 down at Twickers, ever?) and just didn't get there against a good Irish side.
So, yes maybe stale. But maybe, we're just playing a certain way trying to build some patterns for the RWC.
We won in Brisbane in 2014, needed a last minute try and Slade’s conversion to do so though. It was the match where Ewen quit after.
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so, if we do retain the RWC, are we happy with this loss to get it?
Do we want our unblemished record v Ireland back or a 3-peat? Think I'd take the former TBH...not sure us winning 3 RWC's in a row does the game or tournament any favours.
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@taniwharugby said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
so, if we do retain the RWC, are we happy with this loss to get it?
Do we want our unblemished record v Ireland back or a 3-peat? Think I'd take the former TBH...not sure us winning 3 RWC's in a row does the game or tournament any favours.
i want to win everything, all the time, while at the same developing an entire squad of test quality players, and new innovative rugby
Is that too much to ask?
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so you'd be ok to suck for 3 years of 'friendlies' as long as we won the RWC?
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@taniwharugby
No, but I also don't think losing outside of a RWC to a team who never beaten us but is also is the best/second best in the world is as bad as losing to any team in a world cup - or losing to a team that isn't competing for the top spot for that matter. -
@mofitzy_ my 2 posts above were separate and I dont necessarily agree with myself if you talk to both of them together.
First post, I'd take not winning next years RWC to regain our unbeaten record with Ireland, but thats not to say they didnt deserve the win today and I think I am more ok with losing to them than I woulda been last week...
What I dont like is where a win might be sacrificed solely with an eye on a RWC, if this ends up being the case then we will end up with friendlies and less interest in between RWCs.
We hear comments about changing of game plans, trying different things, keeping powder dry and all that, which I believe is a small part of our form this last few months, but on the flipside, I'd prefer we went out there with our 'a game' week in week out, have your back ups when it doesnt work - but ultimately, do what works.
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Ahhh fuck it, I'm old and most of my AB supporting life we've not been world cup holders. Come that day again, it'll be like putting on some old comfy slippers 😁
I'm in the please let this be a powder dry season camp, just because I can't stomach that the empire has slid so far in a year. Hardly an imperious year on the battlefield though was it?
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@siam said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Come that day again, it'll be like putting on some old comfy slippers
Fuck that. Get angry and win. Terrible year, probably lose to Italy next. I am not happy about the way this is going.
A bit melodramatic, but we are losing the edge.
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Absolutely he’s gone stale. His assistants are a big part of it, but some of his public comments during/since the Lions tour suggest the edge is well gone.
He originally planned to step down mid-RWC cycle to avoid this, he might have been right to do so, but then we’d have had Foster - so we need an onto it Hansen back.
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@donsteppa We could try and get that prick Schmidt but Rennie is the man I reckon.
One fucking loss and I want to sack the lot of them!
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@taniwharugby said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
What I dont like is where a win might be sacrificed solely with an eye on a RWC, if this ends up being the case then we will end up with friendlies and less interest in between RWCs.
Poor old Bonesetta trying to comfort me near the end of the match. "Oh well at least these games don't matter". The confusion and regret on her face from the glare she got back was priceless. Bless her, she's into rugby in a big way but only been that way since she met me...actually really picked up on the nuances really well.
May she rest in peace. Anyone want to buy a shovel? Only used once.
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@snowy said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa We could try and get that prick Schmidt but Rennie is the man I reckon.
One fucking loss and I want to sack the lot of them!
I reckon it’s more that this loss is the culmination of the last 15 months of an All Blacks team running very hot and very cold - with some curiously predictable weak points and patterns.
But for the TMO last week, TSF might be very sour indeed, and calling up the C team that played Japan.
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@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
I reckon it’s more that this loss is the culmination of the last 15 months of an All Blacks team running very hot and very cold - with some curiously predictable weak points and patterns.
But for the TMO last week, TSF might be very sour indeed, and calling up the C team that played Japan.All of that. If we can see the cracks why can't a professional coaching team?
I don't know the answers but I can see some of the problems.
Competition for positions might engage some older heads a bit instead of guaranteed starts.
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@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
We missed an opportunity with Schmidt, we should have brought him back to coach the Blues and said to him succeed here and the ABs are yours. After all he's familiar with the Blues and some of his backline decisions heralded in the era of mediocrity.
Forget the Blues. Vern Cotter and Joe Schmidt will forever be the coaches named to take charge of an All Time Bay of Plenty Steamers squad. Schmidt is an absolute legend.
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@snowy said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
Schmidt is an absolute legend.
And a traitorous prick.
Get rid of Hansen and get him on the right side then
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He is missing Richie McCaw and his famous high standards from his chief lieutenant. The side seemed to lack power to make yards in the first half, but also lacked fitness and cool-heads to take the game by the scruff of the neck in the last ten minutes. The ABs no longer have the advantage in conditioning over the NH sides that they enjoyed 2004-2016.
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@donsteppa I might still be a little angry. I'll be fine by March when the Blues start losing.
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@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
We missed an opportunity with Schmidt, we should have brought him back to coach the Blues and said to him succeed here and the ABs are yours. After all he's familiar with the Blues and some of his backline decisions heralded in the era of mediocrity.
Forget the Blues. Vern Cotter and Joe Schmidt will forever be the coaches named to take charge of an All Time Bay of Plenty Steamers squad. Schmidt is an absolute legend.
I don't think you quite got the tone of my post.
Cotter was the man in charge at BoP right?
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@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
We missed an opportunity with Schmidt, we should have brought him back to coach the Blues and said to him succeed here and the ABs are yours. After all he's familiar with the Blues and some of his backline decisions heralded in the era of mediocrity.
Forget the Blues. Vern Cotter and Joe Schmidt will forever be the coaches named to take charge of an All Time Bay of Plenty Steamers squad. Schmidt is an absolute legend.
I don't think you quite got the tone of my post.
Cotter was the man in charge at BoP right?
I got the tone, but on a day of rugby bitterness it was too good a chance to remember 2004 and to angle for a return to Tauranga
Yep, Cotter was in charge and Schmidt the assistant.
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@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@nepia said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
We missed an opportunity with Schmidt, we should have brought him back to coach the Blues and said to him succeed here and the ABs are yours. After all he's familiar with the Blues and some of his backline decisions heralded in the era of mediocrity.
Forget the Blues. Vern Cotter and Joe Schmidt will forever be the coaches named to take charge of an All Time Bay of Plenty Steamers squad. Schmidt is an absolute legend.
I don't think you quite got the tone of my post.
Cotter was the man in charge at BoP right?
I got the tone, but on a day of rugby bitterness it was too good a chance to remember 2004 and to angle for a return to Tauranga
Yep, Cotter was in charge and Schmidt the assistant.
Yes, I too was remembering 2004 ... hmm, so who would be the Tasesa Lavea option at 10 for the ABs when Schmidt took over?
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I have trust in Hansen (I think), his track record speaks for itself. I however am praying this is all part of his game plan for next year. Reminds me of pool play st 2015 WC, playing fatigued?
Our attack is almost non-excistent so is he storing it away? Ireland have 1 game plan, it hasn't changed at all under Joe, just executed to perfection but I think they have shown all their cards before the big dance.
What has he got up his sleeve? -
@snowy said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
@donsteppa I might still be a little angry. I'll be fine by March when the Blues start losing.
Never fear, an NZ rugby journalist will set you right...
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@kiwiinmelb said in Has Hansen gone stale?:
The concern for me , was the struggle in our attack against the lions defense last year ,
And against a similar defense last night , there was very little to suggest we have come up with any ideas on how to unlock it .
Didn't struggle in the first test v BIL...
