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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
To me @Crucial 's post regarding consequences was in regard to his contract issues rather than the more wider view of consequences of the actual words? These are two different issues that have been conflated IMO.
They are not 2 issues at all.
I think I get what you mean but in the context of what I feel @Crucial was saying I feel they were two separate things.
I dont think you know what i mean at all. If you think "contractual issues"" have any relevance to my critique of Crucials anti free speech stance.
If there a clause in all Aussie players conteacts to not utter quotes from religous texts...that is a disgusting attack on free speech.
If there is a "bring game into disrepute" clause and that is being used... equally bad. A complete and abuse of power to attack free speech.
Both scenarios match my critique on empowering powerful institutions to bully individuals. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
To me @Crucial 's post regarding consequences was in regard to his contract issues rather than the more wider view of consequences of the actual words? These are two different issues that have been conflated IMO.
They are not 2 issues at all.
I think I get what you mean but in the context of what I feel @Crucial was saying I feel they were two separate things.
I dont think you know what i mean at all. If you think "contractual issues"" have any relevance to my critique of Crucials anti free speech stance.
If there a clause in all Aussie players conteacts to not utter quotes from religous texts...that is a disgusting attack on free speech.
If there is a "bring game into disrepute" clause and that is being used... equally bad. A complete and abuse of power to attack free speech.
Both scenarios match my critique on empowering powerful institutions to bully individuals.Any chance we can have a discussion rather than a jump down your throat argument this time?
I think I do get your point in that the sort of contractual constraints you’ve illustrated trample all over free speech and I don’t entirely disagree with you. Crucial’s post to me, said that Folau had this contract, agreement, whatever with RA and decided to flout it. Accordingly he shouldn’t be surprised if those actions had consequences. He did not intimate that this was a good thing, just that it was foreseesable.
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@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
To me @Crucial 's post regarding consequences was in regard to his contract issues rather than the more wider view of consequences of the actual words? These are two different issues that have been conflated IMO.
They are not 2 issues at all.
I think I get what you mean but in the context of what I feel @Crucial was saying I feel they were two separate things.
I dont think you know what i mean at all. If you think "contractual issues"" have any relevance to my critique of Crucials anti free speech stance.
If there a clause in all Aussie players conteacts to not utter quotes from religous texts...that is a disgusting attack on free speech.
If there is a "bring game into disrepute" clause and that is being used... equally bad. A complete and abuse of power to attack free speech.
Both scenarios match my critique on empowering powerful institutions to bully individuals.Any chance we can have a discussion rather than a jump down your throat argument this time?
I think I do get your point in that the sort of contractual constraints you’ve illustrated trample all over free speech and I don’t entirely disagree with
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Catogrande said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in [The Folau Factor
Any chance we can have a discussion rather than a jump down your throat argument this t
I think I do get your point in that the sort of contractual constraints you’ve illustrated trample all over free speech and I don’t entirely disagree with you. Crucial’s post to me, said that Folau had this contract, agreement, whatever with RA and decided to flout it. Accordingly he shouldn’t be surprised if those actions had consequences. He did not intimate that this was a good thing, just that it was foreseesable.
Any chance you could actually address the point?
Your post just misses my point completely. I will say again, supporting this sort of interpretation supports my post and reinforces my critique pf Crucials anti free speech stance.
He states Falou can say what he wants but the rest of his post shows he just doesnt believe that....because consequences. -
Apparently I now have an 'anti free speech' stance because @Baron-Silas-Greenback declares it so.
If he took time to actually read what I wrote instead of using it as a platform for a speech maybe the last few posts wouldn't be necessary.
I've been up since 3 and now have meetings to attend but when I get a chance I will reply properly -
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
Apparently I now have an 'anti free speech' stance because @Baron-Silas-Greenback declares it so.
If he took time to actually read what I wrote instead of using it as a platform for a speech maybe the last few posts wouldn't be necessary.
I've been up since 3 and now have meetings to attend but when I get a chance I will reply properlyCool i look forward to you ckearly stating that Falou has been treated badly anf that Qantas and Aus rugby have trampled all over free speech with no justification. Then iwill accept you are not anti free speech.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
Apparently I now have an 'anti free speech' stance because @Baron-Silas-Greenback declares it so.
If he took time to actually read what I wrote instead of using it as a platform for a speech maybe the last few posts wouldn't be necessary.
I've been up since 3 and now have meetings to attend but when I get a chance I will reply properlyCool i look forward to you ckearly stating that Falou has been treated badly anf that Qantas and Aus rugby have trampled all over free speech with no justification. Then iwill accept you are not anti free speech.
If I can only discuss or debate on your terms then I won't waste the energy.
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@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Crucial said in The Folau Factor:
Apparently I now have an 'anti free speech' stance because @Baron-Silas-Greenback declares it so.
If he took time to actually read what I wrote instead of using it as a platform for a speech maybe the last few posts wouldn't be necessary.
I've been up since 3 and now have meetings to attend but when I get a chance I will reply properlyCool i look forward to you ckearly stating that Falou has been treated badly anf that Qantas and Aus rugby have trampled all over free speech with no justification. Then iwill accept you are not anti free speech.
If I can only discuss or debate on your terms then I won't waste the energy.
Those arent debate terms they are simply the standard any free speech supporter would have on this issue.
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I’ve been wondering if someone might step up and say something like this . Good on him .
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@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
I’ve been wondering if someone might step up and say something like this . Good on him .
Yep, it's wider than you think. The hearing will be very interesting -- RA may find that early grandstanding comes back to bite them in the arse, both legally and with players.
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It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
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@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
Once one starts the conversation I’m sure more will follow .
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So, given the increasing Polynesian-ing (new word!) of the Wallabies, they might battle to find 23 players for October
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
So, given the increasing Polynesian-ing (new word!) of the Wallabies, they might battle to find 23 players for October
Just what you need in a World Cup year!
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@mariner4life There are plenty of Polynesians who don't agree with Folau's views, though. They're not all fundamentalists. And some actually have brains and understand the difference between holding views, expressing them in private and expressing them in public; between things you can say while employed and things you cannot say while employed.
Folau has expressed his beliefs often on his social media accounts. It's only the few that crossed the ARU's line, that got him into trouble. So it's easy for Polynesian players - even the homophobes among them - to stay true to their beliefs and express them to a great extent; just keep the ones that breach your employer's rules (or the law) off your social media accounts.
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@Stargazer what's your point?
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@mariner4life That they won't have trouble finding 23 players for the Wallabies, because there may be plenty of PI players disagreeing with Folau, or agreeing with Folau but having the brains to respect the terms of their employment and keep their bigoted views off social media.
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@Stargazer said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@mariner4life That they won't have trouble finding 23 players for the Wallabies, because there may be plenty of PI players disagreeing with Folau, or agreeing with Folau but having the brains to respect the terms of their employment and keep their bigoted views off social media.
oh, you thought i was serious. Cute.
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@mariner4life You never know on the Fern ... people say the strangest things
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@Stargazer sure Polynesians aren't an homogeneous borg, those that are religious take it seriously.
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@antipodean Yep, there are many Christian denominations and even more interpretations, also among Polynesians. So those that take their religion seriously, may have an entirely different view from Folau. Digby Ioane, for example, has been very clear about that.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions