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Sounds like we have a fix.
Discussing these political statements with players first, calling it something that maybe nods towards the message they're trying to send without kowtowing to the radicals co-opting a previously positive movement ie 'tolerance jerseys', and even then giving the players the option to wear regular jerseys if they are still not 100% comfortable...so you know actually promoting tolerance rather than using it as a bludgeon on those from different backgrounds and views.
Probably won't get the headlines and clicks though.
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@No-Quarter said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
The problem I see with the rainbow flag is mostly around the transgender / gender ideology movement which has become batshit insane, so people struggle to support that, partly because it tramples all over women's rights, and partly because a lot of it is simply wrong at a scientific level.
Agree with @gibbon-rib that putting a rainbow on their jersey should have been discussed with the players first, and if there was opposition that needed to be dealt with before they made a big public statement about it. They've now got a lot of egg on their face, and the intention has backfired because it has shown a significant number of the team are against homosexuality.
The thing is that any issue people have with the gender ideology movement - and I know there are many - are not really connected to little rainbow stripes on the jersey.
They jersey has just got a nod to the rainbow flag in it, and the rainbow flag is just an expression of LGBT pride. It's not an expression of any ideology around gender identity, other than "trans people exist and there's nothing wrong with them showing pride in that". Rainbow flags are bloody everywhere, not every person, institution and company that displays one is making a statement about postgenderism.
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@hash said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Sounds like we have a fix.
Discussing these political statements with players first, calling it something that maybe nods towards the message they're trying to send without kowtowing to the radicals co-opting a previously positive movement ie 'tolerance jerseys', and even then giving the players the option to wear regular jerseys if they are still not 100% comfortable...so you know actually promoting tolerance rather than using it as a bludgeon on those from different backgrounds and views.
Probably won't get the headlines and clicks though.
Genuine question: do you think Manley choosing to put rainbow stripes on their jersey is kowtowing to the radicals?
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I think everybody needs to open their minds for a bit ... the other way.
You can't just say "your thinking is wrong" and then expect 100% of people to comply. I am not a bigot. I am 100% pro people living their best lives as they see fit & living how they wish to. However, I'll admit, that I wouldn't be comfortable on a gay cruise. I can't help the way I feel about this. I still find it cringy to see two blokes kiss, hold hands etc. I wish I didn't, but I do. I don't know if it's an intolerant education / upbringing & I've been trained, or it's just a natural feeling. No idea. You won't see me at pride marches and you certainly won't see me taking the kids to pride marches (having to explain to my kids why a breasted man is twerking in front of me is not something I want to be a part of). It's just who I am. One of my bosses is gay & over a bottle of wine we had a chat about the above. He appreciated my honesty & we get on better than ever.
Seeing rainbow flags, companies supporting LGBT rights etc doesn't change anything for me personally. If somebody told me I had to wear a rainbow, then it's no problems for me personally, but am I allowed to question it? I'm not against pride months / rainbows etc. I acknowledge that these communities faced bigotry in the past (and occasionally in the present) and they deserve to know they have the full support of companies / institutions. Same goes for any other group which was persecuted (Blacks, Jews etc). Because I'm much more politically interested / invested these days, I laugh more at the hypocrisy of companies who update all their logos etc to rainbows for pride month, but for some strange reason, leave all their middle east ones alone ...
So where is the line drawn? How do you figure it where the line is? Should those folks who openly state (for whatever reason) they aren't comfortable with the pride stuff be smashed / cancelled / destroyed or should their thoughts be listened to?
And what about me? Am I acceptable?
I don't have the answers. I just dislike the concept of correct opinions / viewpoints.
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@No-Quarter said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
The problem I see with the rainbow flag is mostly around the transgender / gender ideology movement which has become batshit insane, so people struggle to support that, partly because it tramples all over women's rights, and partly because a lot of it is simply wrong at a scientific level.
@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
The thing is that any issue people have with the gender ideology movement - and I know there are many - are not really connected to little rainbow stripes on the jersey.
I appreciate the crossover, but can we please keep the trans stuff on the other thread. I think that's a different kettle of fish to what is being discussed here.
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@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@hash said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Sounds like we have a fix.
Discussing these political statements with players first, calling it something that maybe nods towards the message they're trying to send without kowtowing to the radicals co-opting a previously positive movement ie 'tolerance jerseys', and even then giving the players the option to wear regular jerseys if they are still not 100% comfortable...so you know actually promoting tolerance rather than using it as a bludgeon on those from different backgrounds and views.
Probably won't get the headlines and clicks though.
Genuine question: do you think Manley choosing to put rainbow stripes on their jersey is kowtowing to the radicals?
I know you aren't asking me but I'll answer anyway. No, I don't think they are.
But what they are doing with this statement, is putting a management political view ahead of the wishes of their contracted players.
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@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
keep religion out of sports
keep politics out of sport
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@Frank said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
keep religion out of sports
keep politics out of sport
is the BS argument used for decades in support of the Springboks picking whites only
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@MajorRage said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@hash said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Sounds like we have a fix.
Discussing these political statements with players first, calling it something that maybe nods towards the message they're trying to send without kowtowing to the radicals co-opting a previously positive movement ie 'tolerance jerseys', and even then giving the players the option to wear regular jerseys if they are still not 100% comfortable...so you know actually promoting tolerance rather than using it as a bludgeon on those from different backgrounds and views.
Probably won't get the headlines and clicks though.
Genuine question: do you think Manley choosing to put rainbow stripes on their jersey is kowtowing to the radicals?
I know you aren't asking me but I'll answer anyway. No, I don't think they are.
But what they are doing with this statement, is putting a management political view ahead of the wishes of their contracted players.
Mostly agree. But saying we are opposed to racism / homophobia / sexism isn't a political statement.
IMO there's nothing wrong with management putting their wishes ahead of the players - it's a professional team / company, not a cooperative. (And chances are a lot more than 7 of the other players are supportive of it). But management should be aware of and sensitive to the different views, and they stuffed that up royally.
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@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Mostly agree. But saying we are opposed to racism / homophobia / sexism isn't a political statement.
It is a political statement. We in the west just have a defined view of what is the correct narrative, which in turn attempts to take away the politics in it. Not saying that is the wrong approach btw.
IMO there's nothing wrong with management putting their wishes ahead of the players - it's a professional team / company, not a cooperative. (And chances are a lot more than 7 of the other players are supportive of it). But management should be aware of and sensitive to the different views, and they stuffed that up royally.
Yep, agree. Company management is there to provide leadership (off the field) and this is their right. No arguments there.
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@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@Frank said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
keep religion out of sports
keep politics out of sport
is the BS argument used for decades in support of the Springboks picking whites only
Thats cherry picking a view a bit. Multiple reasons to keep politics out of sport. Above is a good reason to keep it in.
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@MajorRage said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@Frank said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
keep religion out of sports
keep politics out of sport
is the BS argument used for decades in support of the Springboks picking whites only
Thats cherry picking a view a bit. Multiple reasons to keep politics out of sport. Above is a good reason to keep it in.
Sure, I agree there are good reasons to keep politics out of sport. If any team started making public statements in support of One Nation or the Greens or whatever then that would be very wrong.
It's just that whenever I hear anyone say "keep politics out of sport" then there's a near 100% chance that they're talking about an issue that sport should be involved with.
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Supporting gay rights is not political
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@Kirwan said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
I just watched the Des Hasler press conference. Fucking hilarious, enjoyed it when he started quoting Gandhi.
https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/1*cNWmcBultgnsfiHoVJckvw@2x.jpeg
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@MajorRage said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Mostly agree. But saying we are opposed to racism / homophobia / sexism isn't a political statement.
It is a political statement. We in the west just have a defined view of what is the correct narrative, which in turn attempts to take away the politics in it. Not saying that is the wrong approach btw.
Well, depends on your definition of politics I guess.
But you* can't say that opposing racism is political, and also say that politics should be kept separate from sport, unless you think that sport should be completely indifferent about racism - and hopefully nobody thinks that (at least not out loud).
*I don't mean you personally, I mean anyone
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@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Supporting gay rights is not political
In Australia, and most Western democracies, I agree with you, it's not.
But globally, it is. It's still illegal in many countries. Including the one holding the next football world cup.
@gibbon-rib said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Well, depends on your definition of politics I guess.
But you* can't say that opposing racism is political, and also say that politics should be kept separate from sport, unless you think that sport should be completely indifferent about racism - and hopefully nobody thinks that (at least not out loud).
*I don't mean you personally, I mean anyone
Exactly.
My point is where about how the line defined & where is it drawn . Why was it acceptable to completely banish SA from the sporting world due to apartheid, but hold the football world cup in Qatar which has zero respect for gay rights?
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I'd understand this if it was in response to an issue at the club. It's unfathomable that the responsible management didn't think to involve the players.
The club could still display their support by making supporter apparel available for purchase with rainbows on them, but there's no issue to resolve in political messaging: LGB have the same rights as everyone else, even to the point legislation exists to prevent, punish and provide redress for discrimination.
In 2022 this appears to be a solution seeking a problem.
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@MajorRage said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
@mariner4life said in Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions:
Supporting gay rights is not political
In Australia, and most Western democracies, I agree with you, it's not.
But globally, it is. It's still illegal in many countries. Including the one holding the next football world cup.
True. And that's another case where people say "keep politics out of sport" whenever it's suggested that teams / players should make a public statement in support of gay rights.
The time they should have kept the politics out of sport was when they made Russia and Qatar hosts.
Why was it acceptable to completely banish SA from the sporting world due to apartheid, but hold the football world cup in Qatar which has zero respect for gay rights?
Simple answer is that it's not acceptable, it's a disgrace and the only reason it's happening is because of politics and corruption.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions