Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East
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I genuinely feel really sorry for the bloke who decided to shoot down the airliner. Not something he deliberately wanted to do, but now has 179 people on his conscience.
And hopefully the victim's families can get some little closure knowing what actually happened - unlike the Malaysian airline victims.
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Wouldn't expect this to get a lot of coverage, as the recent protests against the Hijab barely made a ripple in mainstream media despite the Iranian government killing around 1500 of them, but this is what is happening in Iran right now. Hopefully they're getting towards a tipping point where the majority of people say enough is enough.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
I genuinely feel really sorry for the bloke who decided to shoot down the airliner. Not something he deliberately wanted to do, but now has 179 people on his conscience.
And hopefully the victim's families can get some little closure knowing what actually happened - unlike the Malaysian airline victims.
I doubt that we will ever know the truth of how that happened.
There has been talk that the missile was on "auto". Who's genius idea was that? Any ex military guys know if that is even a thing?Assume that you are talking about the "lost" MAS flight not the one shot down somewhat ironically by the Ukrainians.
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@Snowy I don’t know who’s saying that. On the contrary the authorities already appear to have a
scapegoatresponsible person identified. From the BBC:For three days, Iran had denied reports its missiles had brought down the plane, with one spokesman accusing Western nations of "lying and engaging in psychological warfare".
But on Saturday morning, a statement read on state TV accepted the plane had been shot down.
Brig-Gen Amir Ali Hajizadeh, the Revolutionary Guards' aerospace commander, explained what happened.
He said a missile operator had acted independently and alone, mistaking the plane for a "cruise missile" as there had been reports that such missiles had been fired at Iran.
"He had 10 seconds to decide. He could have decided to strike or not to strike and under such circumstances he took the wrong decision," Gen Hajizadeh said.
"He was obliged to make contact and get verification. But apparently, his communications system had some disruptions."
Gen Hajizadeh said the military would upgrade its systems to prevent such "mistakes" in the future.
He said he had "wished he was dead" after being told of the missile strike.
Gen Hajizadeh said he had informed the authorities about what had happened on Wednesday, raising questions about why Iran had denied involvement for so long.
Ayatollah Khamenei said there was "proof of human error", while President Hassan Rouhani said Iran "deeply regrets this disastrous mistake".
Foreign Minister Javad Zarif laid part of the blame on the US. "Human error at a time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to [this] disaster," he said.I’m especially appreciating the comment that he “wished he was dead”. I suspect that’s one wish he will have granted, and sooner rather than later.
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@Snowy the bellingcat podcast series provided evidence outlining the actual Russian transportable missile, it's location of deployment and names and intercepts of Russian soldiers and phone conversations.
The claim that the Ukrainians shot down the plane is highly disputable.
The only real difference here is that Russia refused to admit responsibility.
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@Snowy said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
Assume that you are talking about the "lost" MAS flight not the one shot down somewhat ironically by the Ukrainians.
The MAS flight that was shot down. Has anyone ever accepted blame for that one?
There has been talk that the missile was on "auto". Who's genius idea was that? Any ex military guys know if that is even a thing?
Be interested to know as well. Watched a documentary on some new RN warship a year or two ago. Mentioned that it could "identify, track and automatically engage multiple targets.". I'd imagine (hope!) it has some fail-sale systems in place like transponder identification
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@No-Quarter stunning and brave.
Interesting replies. Can't win eh.
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This guy is worth following if you want some perspective from actual Iranians. Has done some really interesting threads on it, and is calling out people using this whole thing as a bat to beat Trump with when they have little to no understanding of the issues.
Edit - he's also a solid lefty, so not just trying to score political points by pointing out how bad the Iranian government is.
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@Bones said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@No-Quarter stunning and brave.
Interesting replies. Can't win eh.
The replies seem to be a mix of leftwing Americans bashing trump and Iranian people thanking him. Go figure.
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@No-Quarter said in Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
The replies seem to be a mix of leftwing Americans bashing trump and Iranian people thanking him. Go figure.
Loved this twitter exchange:
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Not really sure where to ask this.
How serious is the current Israel Palaestine conflict?
Is this right wing media hyping it up to try and draw contrast with the relative peace of the Trump Presidency on that front ?Or is this some genuinely serious shit?
I never know what to believe anymore
(that and I am uninformed idiot on these matters) -
@frank from what I've caught Netanyahu isn't doing well and the attack at the Al-Aqsa and the removal of Palestinians from their homes in east Jerusalem is popular with the more hardcore elements of Israel. Read that it was 2014 since the last rockets were fired into Israel, but unsure if that was due to a crack down on weapons making it in, the effectiveness of iron dome, or some progress towards better relations (yeah right). The Al-Aqsa attack, and the continuing rejections (from Israeli authorities) for people applying for access to the mosque, and the other stuff in East Jerusalem has turned shit back up to 11.
Seems Hamas have a shit load of rockets as they were clearly trying to saturate iron dome. We know Israel does not fuck about with reprisals so they've been going hard.
Only saw one article that mentioned it but during Trump's administration there was a lot of growth of Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem. Where it's clear Israel is trying to push the Palestinians out and they try and inch closer to international recognition of Jerusalem as their capital.
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I’m not an expert on this, but I think Israel is trying to get as much as they can while they can, by supporting the (currently) small percentage of the population (Haredis) that they see as the key to remaining in power long term.
The local Israeli population is becoming more diverse and the country is coming under greater pressure from both sides with short/medium term effects and longer term effects.
The percentage of Arab Israelis has more than doubled since 1949, and is now about 20% of the total population. About 2/3 of them say religion is important and many naturally sympathize with the Palestinians. Until about 2035 this growth should continue (up to 1/4 of the total population) which will put pressure on the country to be more diverse.
On the other hand, there seems to be a trend that the percentage of Haredi (very devout) Jews will also grow, and after 2035 Jews are predicted to grow as a percentage of the total population - and specifically Haredi Jews will grow to be about 32% of the population.
So, honestly, I'd say that the next Civil War/regional war/world war will start in Israel.
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@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
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@paekakboyz said in Israel, Iran, Syria, and the rest of the ... Middle East:
@gt12 and how many moderate Jews and Arab Israeli's get fucked over while the Haredi continue to push. I've got a bunch of Israeli and Arab Israeli mates (best mate at Uni married a Israeli Jew, she also converted but that's another story) and they are continually frustrated at the groups who agitate so hard (Haredi + some others) but don't have to serve in the military due to religious reasons. So others get to carry the can for what another group is initiating. Many, many layers of suckiness to this
I am sure there are groups on both sides who want to keep on fighting each other forever, while a large proportion are stuck in the middle just wanting to get on with living