RWC: England v USA (Pool C)
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@mariner4life I've met him a couple of times and he is a lovely, intelligent, friendly bloke. The signed rugby ball he gave me is sitting right next to my keyboard as I type this
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@mariner4life There is a good still shot of the Francis hit on the BBC report about his citing.
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@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@voodoo said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@voodoo said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
I really like Eddie Jones
He is the biggest piston wristed gibbon in world rugby.
Not even close
That's come from players and coaches who have been part of his setup. Almost universally hated. Not but saying he hasn't been successful, but he's just an awful human.
ever met the bloke?
Christ no man, what a question to ask of someone on the Fern!
Look, I'm sure he is great on a stage, though that's hardly the measure of a bloke - and I have no doubt he lives and breathes rugby. And I'm sure there are plenty of guys who have played with him and had no issue with him and even liked/loved him.
But I know a couple of guys who have been very close to his setups and know guys intimately who played with and assisted him over the years years. And some of the stories are pretty intense - but this isn't the place to repeat them.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life There is a good still shot of the Francis hit on the BBC report about his citing.
You had one job BBC
"England's Piers Francis has been cited for foul play following a tackle that left United States full-back Will Hooley with concussion."
Hooley left the field with concussion after missing an up and under, which I'm yet to see a replay / analysis of.
Wilson was on the hunt and I'm curious if he was the cause of the concussion
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@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
So double cheating by USA to get away with a yellow and then get an ENG player cited? How very dare they! #nojustice
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
Yeah I know.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
Yeah I know.
Ah. Was that what you were getting at? If so it went straight past me.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
Yeah I know.
Ah. Was that what you were getting at? If so it went straight past me.
BBC said the Francis hit gave Hooley concussion.
Hooley left the field on a stretcher with I'm guessing concussion after failing to gather an up and under.
Whether the concussion was caused by his head hitting the ground as he slipped/fell or whether Wilson hit him in the head in the act of tackling him is unknown as we haven't seen any replays and no mention of it.
I can understand not showing it while they're loading him on the stretcher, but once he left the field someone should have had a look.
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Also posted in the "Judicial Happenings" thread:
.USA flanker John Quill suspended for 3 matches
USA flanker John Quill appeared before an independent judicial committee having received a red card for an act of foul play contrary to Law 9.13 (dangerous tackle) in USA’s Rugby World Cup 2019 match against England on 26 September. The committee, chaired by Nigel Hampton QC (New Zealand) with former international coach Frank Hadden (Scotland) and former international match official Valeriu Toma (Romania), heard the case, considering all the available evidence, including multiple broadcast angles and submissions from the player and his representative. The player admitted that he had committed an act of foul play worthy of a red card. In determining the sanction, the committee deemed that: * There was an act of foul play (which was reckless, rather than deliberate) * The act of foul play was a shoulder charge * There was contact with the head * There was a high degree of danger; and * There were not sufficient mitigating factors to reduce the sanction from a red card to a yellow card Given the above outcomes, the committee applied World Rugby’s mandatory minimum mid-range entry point, which was introduced in 2017 to mitigate protect player welfare, deter high contact and prevent head injuries. This resulted in a starting point of a six-week suspension. Having acknowledged Quill’s good character and conduct at the hearing, the committee reduced the six-week entry point by three weeks, resulting in a sanction of three weeks, which equates to three matches in the context of the Rugby World Cup. Quill will miss USA’s three remaining pool matches (against France, Argentina and Tonga) at Rugby World Cup 2019. The suspension will end at midnight on 13 October, after which time he is free to resume playing. The player has the right to appeal the decision within 48 hours of receiving the full written decision. -
@Catogrande Definitely a high tackle for me, rather than a shoulder charge, but if they apply the framework in the way that I interpret it there are "video signs indicating higher degree of danger" (2 out of the 3 contact examples - attempting dominant tackle, and tackler speed into tackle was high), and probably also ticks the box on following through. Unless they deem some mitigating factors, I reckon Francis will be lucky to get yellow, and should brace himself for red.
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I've never met Eddie Jones, but I like the bloke. Given he coached Aus to knocking us out of the RWC, SA to a world cup and is now doing his best with England, that's quite something.
Piers Francis shouldn't even be a penalty in my view. Didn't lead with shoulder, did wrap arms.
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@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
The earlier concussion from Francis’ disgusting an brutal high hit probably affected his judgement. 😜
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@Nepia said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@Catogrande said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@MiketheSnow The tackle shown and the one cited for was straight from the kickoff. I’m pretty sure Hooley went off much later but the tossers at ITV didn’t show the incident. Hooley was lucky to be on the field tbh, he went flying in to Cockanisiga chasing a high ball tha ought to have seen yellow at least. I think the fact that Cockanisiga didn’t fall over probably saved him.
The earlier concussion from Francis’ disgusting an brutal high hit probably affected his judgement. 😜
I've seen him play at Exeter Chiefs, Francis must have hit him high a couple of seasons ago.
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@voodoo said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@voodoo said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@voodoo said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
@mariner4life said in RWC: England v USA (Pool C):
I really like Eddie Jones
He is the biggest piston wristed gibbon in world rugby.
Not even close
That's come from players and coaches who have been part of his setup. Almost universally hated. Not but saying he hasn't been successful, but he's just an awful human.
ever met the bloke?
Christ no man, what a question to ask of someone on the Fern!
Look, I'm sure he is great on a stage, though that's hardly the measure of a bloke - and I have no doubt he lives and breathes rugby. And I'm sure there are plenty of guys who have played with him and had no issue with him and even liked/loved him.
But I know a couple of guys who have been very close to his setups and know guys intimately who played with and assisted him over the years years. And some of the stories are pretty intense - but this isn't the place to repeat them.
Oh fuck off. Share with your intimate mates.
We won't tell anyone.
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Also posted in the "Judidial Happenings" thread:
England centre Piers Francis cleared to play - citing not upheld
England centre Piers Francis attended a disciplinary hearing on 29 September having been cited for an act of foul play contrary to Law 9.13 (dangerous high tackle) in England’s Rugby World Cup 2019 match against USA on 26 September. The independent Judicial Committee was chaired by Nigel Hampton QC (New Zealand), joined by former international coach Frank Hadden (Scotland) and former international player John Langford (Australia). The player admitted that he had committed an act of foul play but denied that it reached the red card threshold. Having considered all the angles of the incident, together with evidence from the player and submissions from his legal counsel, the panel determined that the act ought to have resulted in a yellow card on-field. Since the threshold for upholding a citing is ‘red card’, the Committee did not uphold the citing and the player is free to play again immediately. The Committee followed the High Tackle Sanction Framework (HTSF) in order to make its decision. The player accepted that it was a high tackle that made contact with the head of the opposition ball carrier. He also accepted that a high degree of danger was present. Following the HTSF, this results in a starting point of a red card. The Committee then considered whether mitigating factors should result in the sanction being decreased. The Committee decided that there was significant and sufficient mitigation to be found: * in the sudden change of height by the USA player immediately before contact. It was only at the time of that sudden change that the clear line of sight factor (against mitigation) came in to play and could become of relevance; and that line of sight factor, therefore, was somewhat limited in its application, and the weight to be given to it; * in that the Player, being in control of the tackle, attempted to avoid the opponent’s head by making a definite attempt to change his own height and his body position; * in the Player’s initial contact being with his own head on the ball carrier’s left shoulder (and which initial contact absorbed a large degree of force), with the Player’s left shoulder then slipping up to make indirect and minor contact to the ball carrier’s head, causing no apparent injury. The Committee weighed up the factors for and against mitigation and on the balance of probabilities, decided that the mitigating factors outweighed the factors against mitigation and so the appropriate on-field sanction was a yellow card. The citing was therefore not upheld.
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