Coronavirus - Overall
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We're not talking about grey areas. We are talking about out and out OTT, dumb behavior at street level. And Chief Constables, FFS, openly saying they are going to ignore the law, national police guidelines and advice of government lawyers, and search people's shopping - requiring a public rebuke from the Home Secretary.
The vast, vast majority of interactions with the public are as you describe. It's the ones with stupid authoritarian interactions that people remember - and matter. Telling people having a BBQ to move on or they'll be fined is how it should be. Telling shops what food items they can sell or what heel height woman can wear when going out for a walk, really isn't.
There's been a long, recent history of UK police "antics" turning out to be far worse in reallity than initally thought (google Hillsborough), so this stuff really does matter for effective policing in the UK
One of the other things that makes enforcing the restrictions harder, is that here in Qld/Aus, the rules are wishy washy.
They were here too and you can understand they needed bedding down which is why policing standards were set out for the Police to follow. I get the motorcycle/exercise bit. That's one area that has been handled quite well.
If we go up to the said adult and tell them they may be breaking the law, and they get offended and half the interaction ends up on youtube, does that make us Nazis?
Nope, of course not. That's sensible policing,
But setting up road blocks with the express intention of searching people's shopping for "non-essential items" does invite a fair comparison. (Not helped by the publicity from a recent UK court case where Judges described police behavior as akin to the Gestapo or Stasi)
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On a note about the Police discussion going on.
Two incidents I know of this week through my work of police having to break into properties because neighbours have reported not seeing people for 3 weeks and bosses not being able to reach people after their self isolation period. Police are finding dead bodies. Chilled me to the bone. Community deaths are high at the moment that is another issue completely, dread to think what our actual death toll is.
What a horrible thing to experience though, it can already be a very difficult job and they are also working in a time of high stress and anxiety. I bet they'd love to be working from home but they can't. They get my upmost respect 👏🏻
Edit: you also get tossers and idiots in every job, it's not a representative of the whole
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@R-L said in Coronavirus - Overall:
On a note about the Police discussion going on.
Two incidents I know of this week through my work of police having to break into properties because neighbours have reported not seeing people for 3 weeks and bosses not being able to reach people after their self isolation period. Police are finding dead bodies. Chilled me to the bone. Community deaths are high at the moment that is another issue completely, dread to think what our actual death toll is.
What a horrible thing to experience though, it can already be a very difficult job and they are also working in a time of high stress and anxiety. I bet they'd love to be working from home but they can't. They get my upmost respect 👏🏻
Edit: you also get tossers and idiots in every job, it's not a representative of the whole
Bear in mind 1,500 people usually die each day in UK. I expect quite a lot of the shock is owing to the manner of discovery, rather than the deaths themselves. Of course, everyone is especially sensitive to any deaths reported in today's febrile environment.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@pakman said in Coronavirus - Overall:
That will fade in the next three months as economic fears come into focus.
I hope so, but I am skeptical, people have proven to be very susceptible to govt propaganda and scare mongering in NZ.
I think the govt will skate by on claiming with the lockdown they prevented thousands of deaths, despite it being nonsense. The media will help the govt of course.
I do think UK and NZ in different boats.
If after four weeks new cases in NZ are negligible, then, as long as new overseas arrivals spend 14 days in quarantine, hard to see why government could rationally stay at level 4, and maybe even level 3. But if, as I expect, the lack of international tourism and generally more restrained consumer behaviour means the economy gets stuck in a rut, wouldn't Cindy A start to come under pressure?
In UK, closing borders for a prolonged period is inconceivable (at least to me). And I don't think the number of daily deaths will fall below 50 in 2020. So at some point the choice will become stark between social distancing/20% (say) lockdown and 400 daily deaths (two thirds of which are only being advanced by months) OR 80% lockdown and maybe 100 daily deaths.
As people stare in the face companies and the employment they sustain being PERMANENTLY lost I expect sentiment to swing to the former. That would also be consistent with what is said to be the BoJo libertarian overriding philosophy.
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Interesting Economist articlae on potential link between pollution and CV transmission:
The pandemic
Airborne particles may be assisting the spread of SARS-CoV-2Reducing pollution seems to reduce the rate of infection
Science and technologyMar 26th 2020
Editor’s note: The Economist is making some of its most important coverage of the covid-19 pandemic freely available to readers of The Economist Today, our daily newsletter. To receive it, register here. For more coverage, see our coronavirus hub
POLLUTION AND disease have long been associated in people’s minds. The very word “malaria”, for example, means “bad air” in Italian. But the germ theory of infection, developed in the 19th century, knocked on the head the idea that it is the air itself which causes illness. Rather, bad smells indicate sources of pathogens, such as sewage, which are best avoided. A paper just published by a group of Italian researchers does, however, posit the idea that SARS-CoV-2, the virus behind the covid-19 pandemic, might be getting a helping hand from atmospheric pollution.
The paper in question, by Leonardo Setti of the University of Bologna and his colleagues, has not yet been through any process of peer review. Such early releases are, though, becoming commonplace for covid-19-related work, on the assumption that holding ideas back for bureaucratic approval might cost lives. Dr Setti and his associates found themselves wondering why (even allowing for time lags caused by its arrival in different places on different dates) SARS-CoV-2 seemed to spread much faster in Italy’s north—specifically in the wide plain that forms the valley of the Po—than in other parts of the country.
Their hypothesis is that the catalyst was pollution—specifically, small airborne particles that might carry the virus on their surfaces. These are usually far more abundant in the Po valley than elsewhere. In the paper, the researchers cite previous work from other places which suggests that influenza viruses, respiratory syncytial viruses and measles viruses can all spread by hitching lifts on such particles. And they make a good case that, allowing for a 14-day delay caused by SARS-CoV-2’s incubation period, the daily rates of new infections in the Po valley correlate closely with the level of particulate pollution.
An alternative explanation for this correlation might be that, rather than carrying the virus themselves, airborne particles increase susceptibility to infection in those who encounter the pathogen by some other means. Either way, though, a reduction in airborne-particle levels may be a second way, independent of reduced human contact, that lockdowns will help stop the virus spreading around.
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Interesting read 'Operation Cygnus'
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@R-L said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Edit: you also get tossers and idiots in every job, it's not a representative of the whole
True. I'm sure most are doing a great job and I'm not having a go at Plod
But the government has had to remind the police two days in a row that they have no reason, legal right or power to check people's shopping, tell shops what they are allowed to sell or tell people they can't go out in their own garden.
Something is going seriously wrong when this sort of stuff is front-page news day after day.
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@Victor-Meldrew no pasta sauce for you.
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@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew no pasta sauce for you.
So a tweet then. Or was that your point mate? Not sure. A lot of outrage out there, usually about fuck all.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew no pasta sauce for you.
So a tweet then. Or was that your point mate? Not sure. A lot of outrage out there, usually about fuck all.
I have no idea if you're asking a question and if you are, I don't know what it is. I definitely don't recall having a point.
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@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Bones said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew no pasta sauce for you.
So a tweet then. Or was that your point mate? Not sure. A lot of outrage out there, usually about fuck all.
I have no idea if you're asking a question and if you are, I don't know what it is. I definitely don't recall having a point.
You have no idea? Well that’s two of us then! I’m just getting a bit tired of all the “here’s an example of why everything is shit/wonderful” when an individual instance is not really the point. Plus the fucking dog ran off in the park and I’ve finished off the Ch Peuch Haut from last night and half a bottle of a decent SA white and am contemplating a scotch to get me through a family quiz night. I may not be at my best.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I’ve finished off the Ch Peuch Haut from last night and half a bottle of a decent SA white and am contemplating a scotch to get me through a family quiz night. I may not be at my best.
Jeez. None of those are an essential purchase, FFS
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I’ve finished off the Ch Peuch Haut from last night and half a bottle of a decent SA white and am contemplating a scotch to get me through a family quiz night. I may not be at my best.
Jeez. None of those are an essential purchase, FFS
You need to revisit your idea of essential
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
I’ve finished off the Ch Peuch Haut from last night and half a bottle of a decent SA white and am contemplating a scotch to get me through a family quiz night. I may not be at my best.
Jeez. None of those are an essential purchase, FFS
You need to revisit your idea of essential
My Bad. I missed the words "family quiz"
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The Australian woman driving the global search for a COVID-19 vaccine has warned that there is no guarantee of success and the government must have a “plan B” to end the pandemic.
The sobering assessment by Jane Halton, a former federal mandarin who chairs the Bill Gates-backed Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, will dampen hope that a vaccine could be available early next year.
Puncturing the optimism fired by first-stage human trials of a vaccine in the US and accelerated progress towards others here, in China and Israel, Ms Halton said it was “heroic” to assume an answer to the virus would emerge so soon.
Some scientists involved in the CEPI-sponsored program insist that a 12- to 18-month timeline is realistic, but Ms Halton told The Weekend Australian: “If you said we pulled out all the stops and a vaccine was approved and deemed efficacious by the middle of next year, that would be unbelievably quick … we would be ecstatically overjoyed, delighted.
“But I do think it is important not to create unrealistic expectations. No one has ever successfully developed a coronavirus vaccine, and we still don’t have a vaccine against HIV.
“I would never say never. But this is my point about an 18-month timeline: it is heroic, really tough.”
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I see TV here put on the fake news about COVID mass graves in New York.
Amazing disinformation. Designed to induce derision and fear -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback what was it?
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - Overall:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12324045
This is what overwhelming the system looks like - having to temporarily bury the dead so they can be buried properly later when the undertakers catch up.
@nzzp This... Classic misinformation campaign, take something normal and say it is not.
The real story is that these mass graves are normal in New York, they have been operating for decades, they take care of people who have nobody to collect them . Homeless, no next of kin etc. Of course there has been increase in deaths of these sorts of people, but these are NOT Covid 19 mass graves.
The article is pretty good if you read between the lines.Much better than dishonest dross on TV news here. @Godder s comment is just wrong, but understandable given the framing.