Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..



  • Look, it's all the rage, we have a thread about a meatless BK burger, we have a thread about eating meat in Austin, and a dedicated thread to BBQ'ing ... so lets get one going.

    Firstly, asking for a friend.

    Secondly - so has anybody done it? I'm genuinely interested as to why people have moved, what benefits / drawbacks they have seen and what an average daily diet composes? I'm really hoping to find some thoughts about doing this without all the preaching & virtue signalling which tends to go with it these days.

    I recognise this could be the biggest tumbleweed thread in the history of TSF, but thought I might ask ...



  • Ok, I’ll take one for the team and reply to this ludicrous thread.

    If you’re considering going vegetablist to one degree or another you might consider, as a first step, becoming a wastafarian. In this regime you do not eat meat unless it is going to waste. Thus cows have not been killed specifically for you. One of the guys on my recent ski trip was such a person. Hypocritical little fluffy bunny.



  • I had a mate who went vegan for 6 months, who became almost impossible to eat out with. Eventually we broke him and he now loves bacon (Middle Eastern dude who had never had bacon due to coming from a Muslim family).

    Conversely I used to flat with my cousin years back and she's a vegan and she'd make awesome food which I'd just add meat as she wasn't militant.

    I realise I haven't actually addressed your questions.



  • I did vege once for 3 months about 15 years ago, friends said my skin went yellow. Was playing right at the time and didn't lose energy, but I got super bored of the food.

    Nowaways I'm not around great quality meat so hardly ever eat red meat, stick to chicken and bacon and fish with loads of veggies.



  • I'd add, I don't really get vegans. I think you can largely eat properly sourced animal products without eating animals, and keep your conscience clean enough



  • @Nepia said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I had a mate who went vegan for 6 months, who became almost impossible to eat out with. Eventually we broke him and he now loves bacon (Middle Eastern dude who had never had bacon due to coming from a Muslim family).

    Conversely I used to flat with my cousin years back and she's a vegan and she'd make awesome food which I'd just add meat as she wasn't militant.

    I realise I haven't actually addressed your questions.

    Excellent response. Completely in line with expectations.



  • @voodoo said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'd add, I don't really get vegans. I think you can largely eat properly sourced animal products without eating animals, and keep your conscience clean enough

    Yeah, I do agree. Although the climate change from cows I guess sort of eliminates dairy from the thinking right?

    Can't be anything wrong with eggs can there?

    I think I saw peak vegan piston wristed gibbon the other day. Was having a troll through FB and an old friend had seen an advertisement for Pizza Hut with a pepperoni pizza. He's promoted it to his own page with the comment of "Show me some vegan options or get off my facebook". Talk about losing the plot.

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.



  • Not much to add other than I'm going to monitor this thread and see if anyone outs themselves as a vegan.

    The people I've known who have gone vegetarian and stayed that way have put a fair bit of effort into learning how to make tasty meals its a lot easier with meat . Thai and Indian cookbooks are full of decent vegetarian recipes if you like that kind of food.

    My partner has been vegetarian for about 30 years, she says the my food bag vegetarian stuff is pretty good.



  • That's a good point. We've all eaten with vegetarians at various times.

    I always look at their plate and always think that looks pretty unsatisfying and quite shit.



  • I’m currently doing it for weight loss on an experimental basis. I am doing heavy weight training now, 4 times a week and 3 cardio sessions. I gave it a go for month last year but felt shit. I lost weight but my energy levels were crap so I stopped.

    This time I’m giving it at least 3 months and not drinking either. Drinking means KFC or late night mixed grills. I’m at that point where I’m looking in the freezer for pies that aren’t there and I almost stole my sons lunch salami. I’m sticking to it though.

    There is no ethical basis for my switch. It’s purely for my own selfish reasons and I fully intend to eventually eat ribs again.



  • Our family has reduced meat intake, partially for health reasons, partially for environmental reasons. It's a heck of a lot easier to reduce than eliminate - we don't care if mousse has gelatin, for instance, and will throw chicken stock into a soup.

    The kids basically don't care. We love good food, and cook either tasty vegetarian meals, or use meat alternatives (halloumi, sunfed chicken free chicken). Yottam Ottolenghi isn't vegetarian, but has a heap of vegetarian friendly cookbooks (if you like interesting middle eastern food).

    This comment probably lives in a different thread, but if you're serious about Carbon emissions, the three things you can do that reduce your carbon footprint seem to be to not have kids, don't take long trips, and eat less meat.

    finally, vegetarian doesn't necessarily mean low fat/calorie. Ghee makes a shedload of happy fat indians 🙂



  • I am not going Vegan or Vegetarian, but I am making a conscious effort to eat less meat.

    TR Jnr has been watching Game Changers on Netflix where it talks about plant based diets.

    Some of the stuff in it and the benefits seem amazing, but I probably need to watch properly as I've only been catching bits of it.

    There was on experiment they did with 3 NFL players who had a meat meal one night and then vege meal the next, and after each they measured their erections (number, duration, firmness) during their sleep.

    In each of them they all had longer, firmer and more frequent ones after the vege meal.

    Not sure if there have been other studies like this, but in this case, small sample size, so would need to have bigger studies I guess.



  • @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.

    Then why the hell are you asking the Fern?



  • @JC said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.

    Then why the hell are you asking the Fern?

    Just checking that the Fern isn't some sort of unethical, third world social experiment that's got out of control and left the creators behind as it evolves in a hive of scum and villany....



  • The first Mrs JC was a vege. She was a very good cook but the variety wasn’t that great. She also pointed out, to her credit, that most of her vege friends got quite fat due to everything other they cooked having cheese in as a way of introducing fat for mouth feel and taste. She also said (true at the time, maybe not so much now) that the kinds of people who became moral veges/ vegans were the least likely to take regular exercise, so that also contributed to the weight gain and general potato-ish look.

    Nowadays I eat meat but the portion sizes are usually no more than 100grams or so. I won’t be changing my meat eating habits.



  • @nzzp said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @JC said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.

    Then why the hell are you asking the Fern?

    Just checking that the Fern isn't some sort of unethical, third world social experiment that's got out of control and left the creators behind as it evolves in a hive of scum and villany....

    You say that like it’s a bad thing...



  • @JC said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @nzzp said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @JC said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.

    Then why the hell are you asking the Fern?

    Just checking that the Fern isn't some sort of unethical, third world social experiment that's got out of control and left the creators behind as it evolves in a hive of scum and villany....

    You say that like it’s a bad thing...

    you're clearly projecting.

    alt text



  • Like many, I guess I have gone away from building most meals around meat and have avoided rubbish meat for a long time. I see no point in eating rapidly produced rubbery chicken or cheap mince for the sake of it. As for processed meat products (frozen patties type stuff)? That’s just foul.
    However I have always had an iron deficiency and can tell very quickly if a red meat boost is required. Doesn’t take much but a steak or braise a couple of times a week is needed.
    Generally though I don’t even think about whether my meal is going to have meat. I just make something tasty.



  • @JC said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I'm kind of interested to give it a go, but really want some real feedback from real well-balanced people.

    Then why the hell are you asking the Fern?

    Because virtual signalling I’m right your wrong people don’t last here.

    At least, on the threads not about craft beer.



  • @nzzp never said I was serious about carbon emissions and frankly, until the US and China change drastically, it’ll never go into my thought process.



  • @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @nzzp never said I was serious about carbon emissions and frankly, until the US and China change drastically, it’ll never go into my thought process.

    yep. Partially carbon, partially health. Too much saturated fat isn't that great for you; eating more fruit and vegetable isn't a bad thing at all.

    What it does mean is we're tending to eat better meat, but less of it. This is where I see plant based meat tackling the meat supply - not at the top end, but at the commodity end. If you get 'mince' that's similar enough in taste, and cheaper than shitty supermarket mince, why wouldnt' ya? Like anything though, the market will decide if it likes it, and how successful it all is.



  • @nzzp said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @nzzp never said I was serious about carbon emissions and frankly, until the US and China change drastically, it’ll never go into my thought process.

    yep. Partially carbon, partially health. Too much saturated fat isn't that great for you; eating more fruit and vegetable isn't a bad thing at all.

    What it does mean is we're tending to eat better meat, but less of it. This is where I see plant based meat tackling the meat supply - not at the top end, but at the commodity end. If you get 'mince' that's similar enough in taste, and cheaper than shitty supermarket mince, why wouldnt' ya? Like anything though, the market will decide if it likes it, and how successful it all is.

    Virtual signalling governments will interfere in the market if they think it makes them look good.



  • @Kirwan said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @nzzp said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @nzzp never said I was serious about carbon emissions and frankly, until the US and China change drastically, it’ll never go into my thought process.

    yep. Partially carbon, partially health. Too much saturated fat isn't that great for you; eating more fruit and vegetable isn't a bad thing at all.

    What it does mean is we're tending to eat better meat, but less of it. This is where I see plant based meat tackling the meat supply - not at the top end, but at the commodity end. If you get 'mince' that's similar enough in taste, and cheaper than shitty supermarket mince, why wouldnt' ya? Like anything though, the market will decide if it likes it, and how successful it all is.

    Virtual signalling governments will interfere in the market if they think it makes them look good.

    yep, but I don't think it lasts. There's also political cost to that - remember incandescent lightbulbs and low flow showerheads?

    I'm a massive fan of clearly regulated markets. Assuming (let's not argue here about it) that it's carbon the government wants reduced, put a price on it that reflects the cost. Or a cap/trade scheme. Accountants are great at figuring out and scheduling asset replacement to minimise total costs (including carbon). It's the shitty 'oh, suddenly waste levy is $150 a ton' type shock taxes that absolutely get my goat.

    A lot of people have no idea how hard it is to actually run a profitable business. It's like golf, rugby and pole dancing - looks easy until you actually try to do it yourself...



  • @nzzp said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    A lot of people have no idea how hard it is to actually run a profitable business. It's like golf, rugby and pole dancing - looks easy until you actually try to do it yourself...

    Ain't that the truth. Like your average Labour and Greens MP for starters. They all think owners are part of a wider conspiracy to screw the working man and keep them down. Of course there are some bad bosses, but for most it is a symbiotic relationship and everybody benefits

    alt text



  • @canefan I'm in a networking/business owners group on FB, and man, some of these people that have started businesses are destined to fail!

    They have no idea!!



  • @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @canefan I'm in a networking/business owners group on FB, and man, some of these people that have started businesses are destined to fail!

    They have no idea!!

    I don't know what the stats are on small business failure in NZ. I would agree it is probably quite high. It's like inventions, one thing to come up with an idea, another thing entirely to turn it into reality



  • @canefan I think many of them get money form the bank, start spending, then ask people how to do stuff, rather than finding out what they need to do before spending money...the banks probably should be making sure these people have business plans, or even the slightest idea of how much stuff will cost.



  • @MajorRage said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    Look, it's all the rage, we have a thread about a meatless BK burger, we have a thread about eating meat in Austin, and a dedicated thread to BBQ'ing ... so lets get one going.

    Firstly, asking for a friend.

    Secondly - so has anybody done it?

    Yeah had a friend that went full vegan a couple of years back. He died pretty soon after though.....

    .....to me anyway



  • I love meat and couldn't imagine a life without it.

    I'm more than happy to eat vegetarian meals (we have meat free Mondays, and I actually prefer a vegetarian breakfast), but I could never turn.

    I have started eating a lot more fish recently.

    Veganism looks frankly ridiculous



  • @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    I am not going Vegan or Vegetarian, but I am making a conscious effort to eat less meat.

    TR Jnr has been watching Game Changers on Netflix where it talks about plant based diets.

    Some of the stuff in it and the benefits seem amazing, but I probably need to watch properly as I've only been catching bits of it.

    There was on experiment they did with 3 NFL players who had a meat meal one night and then vege meal the next, and after each they measured their erections (number, duration, firmness) during their sleep.

    In each of them they all had longer, firmer and more frequent ones after the vege meal.

    Not sure if there have been other studies like this, but in this case, small sample size, so would need to have bigger studies I guess.

    A lot of the stuff in game changers was exaggerated and lacking in context , for example he was crowing about the fact that gladiators were called barley eaters and took this as an example of a vegan diet being used by elite athletes back in that era. It turns out they were not much more than disposable slaves and given the cheapest food available which was barley . The ufc fighter that beat Conor McGregor isn’t actually a vegetarian and they never included the fact he got hammered in the rematch .
    There’s two podcasts on Rogan about it , one from a guy debunking a lot of stuff in it and then that same guy debating the host of game changers .
    The guy behind game changers argued his case well but it was pretty obvious he had a point he wanted to prove and created a narrative around ignoring studies and evidence that didn’t help him .
    Also James Cameron put the money up for game changers, he’s the epitome of a preachy Hollywood piston wristed gibbon . He’s been living in Wairarapa for a while and thrashwanking in the media about NZ farming is harming the planet and we should all move to plant based diets .

    I’m sure there’s plenty of benefits to cutting some meat from your diet and ethically there are too but that doco is on a par with Vaxxed I reckon .



  • @jegga yeah as I said, I only caught bits and pieces of it, so not watched close enough to look into the science they claimed...

    TR Jnr did talk about going on a plant based diet, but then proceeded to have home made burgers, Mrs TR said he needed to think about what he was going to eat and offer alternatives if he cut out meat, he decided it was too much hard work



  • @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @jegga yeah as I said, I only caught bits and pieces of it, so not watched close enough to look into the science they claimed...

    TR Jnr did talk about going on a plant based diet, but then proceeded to have home made burgers, Mrs TR said he needed to think about what he was going to eat and offer alternatives if he cut out meat, he decided it was too much hard work

    Gold. One of the guys my son worked with decided to go vegan after watching game changers, he lasted about a week. It’s a lot of work , especially when you’re doing a physical job .

    I stopped eating chicken a while back, after seeing what goes on in factory farms and all the hormones in the food it put me off .



  • I think the biggest challenge with going Vegetarian/Vegan is that animals basically take plants that we either cannot eat or have difficulty digesting, and turn them into nutrient rich and easily digestible food.

    We've evolved to eat meat as well as other foods so cutting them out suddenly is fraught with danger.

    My brothers missus is a vegan and she can be hard work to do anything with - it's a real pain having to find places for her to eat, to the point that it'd be easier if she just packed her own lunch. Also, she's had to do a shit ton of research into what foods to eat to try and replace what you get from meat - it's no easy task and IMO not really doable on a long term basis.

    For me and my family we have no plans to cut out meat. One thing we've done is we try to avoid the heavily processed meats that @Crucial talks about. Some of those sausages you can get from supermarkets are barely meat anyway! My wife has also struggled with Iron deficiencies in the past so red meat is a pretty key part of our diet.

    I'm a strong believer in a balanced diet. A lot of people have terrible diets and instead of just eating everything in moderation they suddenly jump to some completely unsustainable diet like Carnivore or Vegan which inevitably leads to health problems down the track.



  • The shit that annoys my is when vegos and vegans attribute their feeling healthier to removing animal products from their diet when in fact they have really only started eating well when they took this up. Of course you are going to notice a difference going from cheap and nasty food to a diet of fresh vegetables!



  • If we are going to diverge into examples of hypocrisy what about those that proclaim that they won't consume dairy products because of the 'harm' to the environment and switch to almond, or worse still, cashew milk.

    I ask them if they have ever considered how a cashew grows. Basically one cashew nut comes from one fruit. It takes a tree load of fruits to produce a about 8kg of nuts only unless you farm them really intensively and irrigate above the natural environment. Even then you are looking at around 200kg per hectare per year. Nowhere near comparable to dairy protein output.

    Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.



  • @No-Quarter we buy the bulk of our meat from a butcher now, proper cuts and better quality



  • @Crucial And you need farmland suitable for crops, rather than just grass.



  • @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.

    Damn, don't ruin almonds for me, they're the best food for stopping a sweet tooth turning (back) into a fatty.



  • @taniwharugby said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    @No-Quarter we buy the bulk of our meat from a butcher now.

    and?

    Even good butchers will make some cheap rubbish because thats what people want.
    It's great that you support an actual butcher rather than a supermarket but it's the quality of the meat that is the key. How much filler and preservative in the sausages, what is being pumped into the bacon etc.



  • @Crucial said in Going Vegetarian / Vegan ..:

    If we are going to diverge into examples of hypocrisy what about those that proclaim that they won't consume dairy products because of the 'harm' to the environment and switch to almond, or worse still, cashew milk.

    I ask them if they have ever considered how a cashew grows. Basically one cashew nut comes from one fruit. It takes a tree load of fruits to produce a about 8kg of nuts only unless you farm them really intensively and irrigate above the natural environment. Even then you are looking at around 200kg per hectare per year. Nowhere near comparable to dairy protein output.

    Same with almonds. Massive tracts of California given over to almond growing with water being sucked from far away and the need to continually pump in bees that can't survive naturally in such a non-diverse ecology.

    The almond thing is insane, I was talking to a guy from California about it over Xmas and he couldn’t believe the industry made it through the drought . Their presence in California probably made the effects of the drought even worse .


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