Coronavirus - UK
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@rapido borders wonât reopen.
Australasia has trapped itself in its own smug
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@siam said in Coronavirus - UK:
I know it's an emergency situation but historical 2 year minimum testing protocols have been discarded for covid vaccines. . First time since protocols were updated because of thalidomide.
Seems the protocols weren't changed, just done more efficiently and with greater priority.
How was it developed so quickly? Because of the global emergency, developing this vaccine has been prioritised by scientists, drug companies and governments, and a huge amount of collaboration has helped this to happen as fast as possible. The vaccines that have been developed have all been through the same amount of testing and safety processes as other vaccines. Any vaccine that is approved will still have been rigorously tested on tens of thousands of people. Before the pandemic even started, scientists had been planning for an outbreak of a new disease and thinking about how a vaccine could be developed as quickly as possible. It helped that Covid-19 is caused by a coronavirus (like SARS) so scientists already knew about how coronaviruses work, including the âspikesâ on the surface which can be used to trigger a reaction from the immune system. Vaccine technology has also improved in recent years. Some of the processes which are usually involved in scientific research have been speeded up so that the vaccine can be available more quickly. For example, trial participants were recruited whilst the study was still being set up, so that they were ready to start as soon as the research was approved. All the usual phases have been gone through, but without waiting between them, and once the initial safety trials were finished, some of the later trials were run at the same time rather than one after the other. Drug companies also decided to start producing the vaccines on a large scale whilst the trials were still happening. That brought them the risk that they would have to destroy them if the vaccine wasn't approved, but means they are ready to be distributed much more quickly. The approval by the MHRA has also been quicker than usual because it was conducting reviews as new evidence became available. The MHRA has also said its staff have been working âround the clockâ to assess the vaccine. There has been a strong commitment from regulators to make sure that the vaccine has been assessed as carefully as possible, in order to prioritise public safety, while also working quickly.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
Waste of money surely since flu has been eradicated in the UK?
Flu kills about 20-25k people per year apparently, which is why we have the flu jab for oldies I guess. The flu vaccine changes every year as the flu virus mutates.
With no flu in the southern hemisphere last winter, NZ had excess deaths of negative 1500 apporx. So 1500 extra lives.
UK has 67m, NZ 5 m. So multiply 1500 by 13.4 = 20,100.
Bang on.
As an aside, no flu this winter either in SH probably. We (NZ) are going to get an excess death 'bump' of 3k approx next year when borders (scheduled to) re-open regardless of covid.
One of big worries is that Flu may make a big come-back in the UK this year. The public health folks are looking at that quite seriously. That said. I had my flu jab as usual last winter.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
Waste of money surely since flu has been eradicated in the UK?
Flu kills about 20-25k people per year apparently, which is why we have the flu jab for oldies I guess. The flu vaccine changes every year as the flu virus mutates.
I was being sarcastic
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
Waste of money surely since flu has been eradicated in the UK?
Flu kills about 20-25k people per year apparently, which is why we have the flu jab for oldies I guess. The flu vaccine changes every year as the flu virus mutates.
I was being sarcastic
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - UK:
@majorrage said in Coronavirus - UK:
@rapido borders wonât reopen.
Australasia has trapped itself in its own smug
You have to wonder if trying to keep the virus out is more dangerous overall than vaccinating those at risk and letting it circulate to build up herd immunity.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
I just donât buy flu disappeared from the UK as soon as Covid hit our shores.
Inconceivable
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
I just donât buy flu disappeared from the UK as soon as Covid hit our shores.
Inconceivable
You've lost me a bit there. Mike.
Just as we live with Flu, vaccinate for it and see deaths as inevitable and acceptable, I think we may be reaching the same point for Covid in the UK.
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@victor-meldrew
some more information related, not to the manufacture but to the testing constraints:Itâs this necessary but long-term process that some people â many of them politicians â fail to understand about the coronavirus vaccine trials. You canât throw money at the problem and hope results happen faster. While the Oxford vaccine trial has already shown promising safety results, and the tantalising possibility of a protective immune response, it was only in 1,000 people (edit, 22 July 2020). To roll out a vaccine to millions (or the whole world), you need a level of confidence that can only come with patience and more data.
The looming decisions for the medicine approval bodies around the world will come with heavy responsibilities. As Sir John Bell, professor of medicine at Oxford University, told the BBC Today programme on 21 July, we donât have the luxury of waiting for the definitive evidence that weâd normally have from a clinical trial. âThe toughest job of anybody is the regulator, who has to make the call on whether it is safe and effective to roll out to the public. I would not want that job,â he said. âItâs a really hard call. If they say yes, there will suddenly be a queue of three-and-a-half billion people asking for a vaccine.â
Public health officials will remember well the times that vaccine rollouts went wrong. In 1976, fears of a swine flu outbreak led the US government to accelerate vaccine development and inoculate tens of millions of Americans. The feared pandemic never arrived, but by some estimates, around 30 people died due to adverse vaccine reactions.
The VAERS database compiled in the USA (The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) latest data shows 5078 deaths recorded in the USA. I'm led to believe by Dr Robert Malone who patented mRNA vaccine technology in 1989 the previous death number for a recall was 25-50 deaths.
My point: Keep an eye on your health up to 30 days after vaccination and people are right to consider the vaccine with the same serious caution as the virus. Neither have given us the normal luxuryof time and testing. Only time will tell.
but people know that so no pearl of wisdom here
https://wonder.cdc.gov/controller/datarequest/D8;jsessionid=FF63B422B9C8FE1CE3E8E1E0EE49 (database link showing vaccines and deaths may have expired)
VAERS data in CDC WONDER are updated every Friday. Hence, results for the same query can change from week to week.
Message These results are for 4,692 total events.
Vaccine
Results are sorted in by-variable orderCOVID19 (COVID19 (JANSSEN)) (1203) 417
COVID19 (COVID19 (MODERNA)) (1201) 2,398
COVID19 (COVID19 (PFIZER-BIONTECH)) (1200) 2,238
COVID19 (COVID19 (UNKNOWN)) (1202) 25
Total 5,078
Note: Submitting a report to VAERS does not mean that healthcare personnel or the vaccine caused or contributed to the adverse event (possible side effect).By way of a comparison VAERS data for all Influenza vaccines over the 10 year period from 2009 to 2019 stood at 381 deaths in total
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I was being sarcastic
Wasn't too sure...
Agree with your point though - think we are now reaching the stage where Covid hospitalisation & deaths are lower than Flu and will be acceptable/manageable.
I just donât buy flu disappeared from the UK as soon as Covid hit our shores.
Inconceivable
You've lost me a bit there. Mike.
Just as we live with Flu, vaccinate for it and see deaths as inevitable and acceptable, I think we may be reaching the same point for Covid in the UK.
Thatâs great and LONG overdue
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
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@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
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@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
In that sort of situation Iâm thinking it would be a multiple cause death certificate, and the death also included in the Covid stats?
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
@victor-meldrew said in Coronavirus - UK:
@mikethesnow said in Coronavirus - UK:
I just donât believe there has been no flu and no flu related deaths since March 2020
I wouldn't have a clue, but it's possible there's been way less due to social distancing/lockdown - or Covid has got there first.
Everything, and I mean everything, has been lumped under the Covid umbrella
A lot of truth in that. If Mrs M's father had caught Covid when dying of terminal cancer, it would have been put down to Covid.
In that sort of situation Iâm thinking it would be a multiple cause death certificate, and the death also included in the Covid stats?
Pretty much. We were told If within 28 days of a positive test, it went in the Covid Stats. Death Certificate would state cancer as cause of death only.
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In the UK the death certificate would usually show all contributing factors in descending (I think) order. Likely in Vicâs MIL case Covid would not be a contributing factor. But⌠still goes in the stats as a Covid death. If you test positive and get run over by a bus outside the test centre, youâre in the stats as a Covid death. đ¤ˇ
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@catogrande said in Coronavirus - UK:
If you test positive and get run over by a bus outside the test centre, youâre in the stats as a Covid death.
Is that actually true though mate? Surely one of those myths that people like me use to mock and deride the response.
Genuine question, as that'll be the final straw that makes me go nuclear! đ