Black Lives Matter
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@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
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@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
i don't know. and i am not willing cast aspersions that basically 12 people sent a dude to jail for fucking ages for selfish reasons.
From what i have read of the evidence presented, and the way Minnesota law works around the charges laid, the verdict looked pretty much in line (i am not a lawyer, so that's as far as i am willing to go).
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@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
I do wonder if the prosecution missed a trick in opting for a jury trial. Maybe they expected the jury to be sequestered from the outset and no one could have forseen the civil settlement, Duante Wright and congressman issues happening through the trial - but the logic for a jury trial from what I understand is all you need to do is convince one or two jurors to avoid a guilty verdict?
In this case it is impossible to see how that holds in a case as charged as this - even if a jury on initial deliberations broke 9-3 in favour of guilty I doubt even the three most contrarian fern posters of all time would have dug their heels in on this one given the environment.
Given the judge threw out the Murder 3 charge, before reluctantly reincluding it and the way some the charges were nested (to get Murder 2 they had to prove felony assault prior to the death)maybe a bench trial would have been a better option?
There are parallels with the Pell trial in Victoria, where bench trials are not available, where a jury convicted unanimously on "the vibe" and not the law and evidence and the which was then unanimously overturned by the High Court.
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@majorrage said in Black Lives Matter:
It's kind of fucked up that Biden went public stating "praying the verdict is the right verdict. It's overwhelming, in my view. I wouldn't say that unless the jury was sequestered."
No, that's not right. It's COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FUCKED UP.
Can you imagine if Trump had done this?
There's trying to appease the woke vote, and then there's basically approving the woke vote to go complete and utterly mental if the US justice system doesn't agree with them.
This shit is just not right. Biden cannot comment like this. He simply cannot.
Yes but Joe Biden is only 1 politician among thousands who haven't said that, so that must be considered...nah just joshing, I completely agree with you😁👍
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@paekakboyz said in Black Lives Matter:
@majorrage but they were sequested when he made that comment. He explicity mentioned that as part of why he was commenting and the timing of it.
I read a bit about both Waters's comments and there were comparisons with Trump's tweets during trials while he was president. There were challenges in the courts about the perceived impact of Trumps comments and they all failed. I haven't read all the comments but it doesn't sound like Waters's comment were any worse than Trump's. So while it was an objectively dumb thing to do, it doesn't seem likely to be cause for a mistrial.
🤭 Trump again
Ps. You sure about the sequestering and the time frame? -
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
Hand on heart, and with the NYT releasing race, occupations, suburbs and other details of the jurors, I can't say that I'd feel responsible for upholding American judicial processes if i was part of the jury.
I think, given the short time at arriving at the verdict, your suggestions have some weight. No blame there at all IMO
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
Hand on heart, and with the NYT releasing race, occupations, suburbs and other details of the jurors, I can't say that I'd feel responsible for upholding American judicial processes if i was part of the jury.
I think, given the short time at arriving at the verdict, your suggestions have some weight. No blame there at all IMO
Didn't realise the NYT had done that. Should be held in contempt of court.
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
Hand on heart, and with the NYT releasing race, occupations, suburbs and other details of the jurors, I can't say that I'd feel responsible for upholding American judicial processes if i was part of the jury.
I think, given the short time at arriving at the verdict, your suggestions have some weight. No blame there at all IMO
They did what???!!!! That's outrageous
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@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
@mariner4life said in Black Lives Matter:
@kirwan said in Black Lives Matter:
If I was jury selection on that trial, I would have done my best to get the hell off of it.
If they found him not guilty, at best they would have their house attacked in pig blood like the witness for the trial had. At worst they would be physically attacked/murdered.
Short deliberation, maybe something like "So who wants a normal life after this shitshow?"
or, alternatively, they watched a video of some dude killing someone, and that was enough.
I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the fact that Floyd had swallowed his stash and was saying he couldn't breath while he was sitting in his car seat, long before the restraint, points away from murder IMO. More like manslaughter.
And the recently released body cam apparantly showed his knee between his shoulder blades not on his neck, but I've not seen that myself.
But my main point is that jury knew that if they didn't return a murder verdict that members of Congress were calling for riots. You don't think self preservation came into their minds at all?
i don't know. and i am not willing cast aspersions that basically 12 people sent a dude to jail for fucking ages for selfish reasons.
From what i have read of the evidence presented, and the way Minnesota law works around the charges laid, the verdict looked pretty much in line (i am not a lawyer, so that's as far as i am willing to go).
OJ Simpson anyone?🙂
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@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
Hand on heart, and with the NYT releasing race, occupations, suburbs and other details of the jurors, I can't say that I'd feel responsible for upholding American judicial processes if i was part of the jury.
I think, given the short time at arriving at the verdict, your suggestions have some weight. No blame there at all IMO
They did what???!!!! That's outrageous
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@siam well I've seen this quoted in several US papers/articles. So
"I’m praying the verdict is the right verdict, which is -- I think it’s overwhelming, in my view," Biden told reporters in the Oval Office. "I wouldn’t say that unless the -- the jury was sequestered now and not hearing me say that."
Not sure on the tone of the Trump bit, but it kind of seems like a relevant connection to make no? moreso around Waters's comments than Biden's I guess.
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
@voodoo said in Black Lives Matter:
@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
Hand on heart, and with the NYT releasing race, occupations, suburbs and other details of the jurors, I can't say that I'd feel responsible for upholding American judicial processes if i was part of the jury.
I think, given the short time at arriving at the verdict, your suggestions have some weight. No blame there at all IMO
They did what???!!!! That's outrageous
OK, that wasn't quite as prescriptive as I expected. Still, seems a bit unnecessary.
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It's definitely worth considering, lets say it wasn't a jury trial and we just had a judge/judges. In the current environment where looting is called "material liberation", and rioting is not being stopped by the police, how safe would you feel if you returned an unpopular verdict?
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So the good news is that the Minnesota police force had no case to answer for, systemic racism was not evidenced and this whole tragedy is due to Chauvin only.
An outstanding win for BLM and now we don't need to donate billions to their cause or disrupt lockdowns with marches anymore. No more kneeling for Mr Floyd either.Thank you BLM, we can now get on with our lives.
As i said earlier justice has been served, and seen to be served. Now back to the climate...
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@siam said in Black Lives Matter:
So the good news is that the Minnesota police force had no case to answer for, systemic racism was not evidenced and this whole tragedy is due to Chauvin only.
An outstanding win for BLM and now we don't need to donate billions to their cause or disrupt lockdowns with marches anymore. No more kneeling for Mr Floyd either.Thank you BLM, we can now get on with our lives.
As i said earlier justice has been served, and seen to be served. Now back to the climate...
I read earlier today that there was going to be a full enquiry into the practices etc of the Minnesota Police. Looking for institutionalised racism, training etc.
Maybe I misread? -
@paekakboyz said in Black Lives Matter:
@majorrage but they were sequested when he made that comment. He explicity mentioned that as part of why he was commenting and the timing of it.
I read a bit about both Waters's comments and there were comparisons with Trump's tweets during trials while he was president. There were challenges in the courts about the perceived impact of Trumps comments and they all failed. I haven't read all the comments but it doesn't sound like Waters's comment were any worse than Trump's. So while it was an objectively dumb thing to do, it doesn't seem likely to be cause for a mistrial.
Different point you are commenting on there fella. I'm not concerned about causing a mistrial.
The point is that Biden made such a pointed comment towards what "should" happen in the outcome. In any trial, there is only one thing that should happen. An unbiased verdict based purely on the trial and nothing else. There is no chance that Biden had as much information as the jurors about both sides of the case. He will have received briefings, but he wasn't in that room day in, day out.
What do you think would have happened if the jury had returned not guilty? What would Biden have said then?
Trump was (rightly) slaughtered every time he did something out of step of with basic decorum, language, meddling and essentially anything unbecoming of a President. Biden has arguably trumped him already.