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@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
I would like the same focus on Biden and his son (and family too).
I find this very odd. Why do you care so much, are you an American voter? I'm somewhat interested in US politics but I don't get why people who aren't US voters are so heavily invested in this. I just watch it the same way I watch overseas rugby games; entertained in principle but generally dismissive of everything about it and certainly not going to get worked up about something that is ultimately of no consequence to me.
Yet you're posting on this thread so you do care a little bit.
And globalization does impact on the world. And endless wars. I want an end to both.
And if China is (sort of) bribing US politicians (and this needs to be looked into. Just like Russia was) maybe they are doing it not just with the US. Biden and his family would be a great start to try and see whats going on (it might be all above board. Like Russia was. The big Russian interference finds were nonsense). Maybe Trumps and other US politicians dealing with China can be looked at too. Whether its normal business dealings (Trump has a big business) or more.The inquiry would need to be open and transparent though. And not friends of Biden or China doing it
Does this enquiry of yours get to look at Chinese bribes or 'favours' to Trump Inc, Ivanka Inc. and Kushner Inc. as well?
After all you want fairness. -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
I would like the same focus on Biden and his son (and family too).
I find this very odd. Why do you care so much, are you an American voter? I'm somewhat interested in US politics but I don't get why people who aren't US voters are so heavily invested in this. I just watch it the same way I watch overseas rugby games; entertained in principle but generally dismissive of everything about it and certainly not going to get worked up about something that is ultimately of no consequence to me.
Yet you're posting on this thread so you do care a little bit.
And globalization does impact on the world. And endless wars. I want an end to both.
And if China is (sort of) bribing US politicians (and this needs to be looked into. Just like Russia was) maybe they are doing it not just with the US. Biden and his family would be a great start to try and see whats going on (it might be all above board. Like Russia was. The big Russian interference finds were nonsense). Maybe Trumps and other US politicians dealing with China can be looked at too. Whether its normal business dealings (Trump has a big business) or more.The inquiry would need to be open and transparent though. And not friends of Biden or China doing it
Does this enquiry of yours get to look at Chinese bribes or 'favours' to Trump Inc, Ivanka Inc. and Kushner Inc. as well?
After all you want fairness.I guess when dignitaries stay at Trump hotels, or are entertained at Mar a Lago that's kosher right......? I wonder how they got the contract to house all these guests....? I wonder if they pay the rack rate......?
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@Winger I said I’m interested. I don’t get how heavily invested you seem to be in making sure Biden has to labour against the same lack of good faith Trump did. It’s obviously a race to the bottom and I can’t see why anyone who didn’t have a direct stake in the outcome would wish for that.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
I would like the same focus on Biden and his son (and family too).
I find this very odd. Why do you care so much, are you an American voter? I'm somewhat interested in US politics but I don't get why people who aren't US voters are so heavily invested in this. I just watch it the same way I watch overseas rugby games; entertained in principle but generally dismissive of everything about it and certainly not going to get worked up about something that is ultimately of no consequence to me.
Yet you're posting on this thread so you do care a little bit.
And globalization does impact on the world. And endless wars. I want an end to both.
And if China is (sort of) bribing US politicians (and this needs to be looked into. Just like Russia was) maybe they are doing it not just with the US. Biden and his family would be a great start to try and see whats going on (it might be all above board. Like Russia was. The big Russian interference finds were nonsense). Maybe Trumps and other US politicians dealing with China can be looked at too. Whether its normal business dealings (Trump has a big business) or more.The inquiry would need to be open and transparent though. And not friends of Biden or China doing it
Does this enquiry of yours get to look at Chinese bribes or 'favours' to Trump Inc, Ivanka Inc. and Kushner Inc. as well?
After all you want fairness.I guess when dignitaries stay at Trump hotels, or are entertained at Mar a Lago that's kosher right......? I wonder how they got the contract to house all these guests....? I wonder if they pay the rack rate......?
That's another of the 'legal but dodgy' ones. I can't confirm how true it is but there are reports that every time he goes to Florida his own hotel charges for the whole entourage to stay (security, aides, hangers on) in the best rooms at full rate.
Now they have to stay somewhere, and I doubt they are normally at the local Holiday Inn booked through Trivago, but you have to concede that it is pretty dodgy when the ability to syphon govt funds directly to Trump Inc is the play.But, I state again (for @Winger s sake), they are all dodgy fuckers in US politics. It is the degree of it that I am looking at and Trump looks to be well in the lead. All of this rubbish about 'draining the swamp'. LOL, he just moved all the frogs to his own swamp and upped the rent.
I would love some of his fans to stop dodging these issues around nepotism, foreign and state favours. Stop the 'whataboutism' (BSGs alarm just went off) and just explain why they don't see a problem with any of it.
While you are at it you could address the fallacy that Trump is persecuted unfairly. Perhaps look back at history. Obama was the first POTUS in 36 years not to have to deal with a special investigation, but as described earlier, that was partly to do with timing as the GOP only had 2 years (12 months really as they moved into election mode) in any position to attack him and they did so with a constant bombardment. They just didn't find anything strong enough to attack him directly.
Both Bush's, Reagan, Clinton, Carter and Ford all faced independent investigations as congress tried to make shit stick. And that comes after Nixon.It would be helpful to find this chart with Trump added in
"When The Opposition Party Runs The House, The President Gets Investigated"
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I would welcome Trumps dealing as President being looked at AGAIN. Why? Because he wouldn't be silly enough not to do anything strictly above board. As he doesn't really need to as he already wealthy. And he knows the fake news media that is really a controlled branch of the elite and their huge money (that Trump seems to threaten unlike most politicians) will not give him an inch of leeway.So bring it on. Look at Chinese influence in the political process by underhand means (it may be all above board). And as part of this look at Trumps dealings AGAIN (but not the main focus to waste even more money). Even though it won't make any difference to the Trump haters. They will see another fake made up article in the fake news media and off they will go again.
Whereas Biden is another situation. His families transactions look really suspect. And hes not the only one. So I would welcome an investigation (but not three years)
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@JC said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
I would like the same focus on Biden and his son (and family too).
I find this very odd. Why do you care so much, are you an American voter? I'm somewhat interested in US politics but I don't get why people who aren't US voters are so heavily invested in this. I just watch it the same way I watch overseas rugby games; entertained in principle but generally dismissive of everything about it and certainly not going to get worked up about something that is ultimately of no consequence to me.
Yet you're posting on this thread so you do care a little bit.
And globalization does impact on the world. And endless wars. I want an end to both.
And if China is (sort of) bribing US politicians (and this needs to be looked into. Just like Russia was) maybe they are doing it not just with the US. Biden and his family would be a great start to try and see whats going on (it might be all above board. Like Russia was. The big Russian interference finds were nonsense). Maybe Trumps and other US politicians dealing with China can be looked at too. Whether its normal business dealings (Trump has a big business) or more.The inquiry would need to be open and transparent though. And not friends of Biden or China doing it
Does this enquiry of yours get to look at Chinese bribes or 'favours' to Trump Inc, Ivanka Inc. and Kushner Inc. as well?
After all you want fairness.I guess when dignitaries stay at Trump hotels, or are entertained at Mar a Lago that's kosher right......? I wonder how they got the contract to house all these guests....? I wonder if they pay the rack rate......?
That's another of the 'legal but dodgy' ones. I can't confirm how true it is but there are reports that every time he goes to Florida his own hotel charges for the whole entourage to stay (security, aides, hangers on) in the best rooms at full rate.
Now they have to stay somewhere, and I doubt they are normally at the local Holiday Inn booked through Trivago, but you have to concede that it is pretty dodgy when the ability to syphon govt funds directly to Trump Inc is the play.But, I state again (for @Winger s sake), they are all dodgy fuckers in US politics. It is the degree of it that I am looking at and Trump looks to be well in the lead. All of this rubbish about 'draining the swamp'. LOL, he just moved all the frogs to his own swamp and upped the rent.
I would love some of his fans to stop dodging these issues around nepotism, foreign and state favours. Stop the 'whataboutism' (BSGs alarm just went off) and just explain why they don't see a problem with any of it.
While you are at it you could address the fallacy that Trump is persecuted unfairly. Perhaps look back at history. Obama was the first POTUS in 36 years not to have to deal with a special investigation, but as described earlier, that was partly to do with timing as the GOP only had 2 years (12 months really as they moved into election mode) in any position to attack him and they did so with a constant bombardment. They just didn't find anything strong enough to attack him directly.
Both Bush's, Reagan, Clinton, Carter and Ford all faced independent investigations as congress tried to make shit stick. And that comes after Nixon.It would be helpful to find this chart with Trump added in
"When The Opposition Party Runs The House, The President Gets Investigated"
Good stats. The one that jumps out is Carter, WTF?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
I would welcome Trumps dealing as President being looked at AGAIN. Why? Because he wouldn't be silly enough not to do anything strictly above board. As he doesn't really need to as he already wealthy. And he knows the fake news media that is really a controlled branch of the elite and their huge money (that Trump seems to threaten unlike most politicians) will not give him an inch of leeway.So bring it on. Look at Chinese influence in the political process by underhand means (it may be all above board). And as part of this look at Trumps dealings AGAIN (but not the main focus to waste even more money). Even though it won't make any difference to the Trump haters. They will see another fake made up article in the fake news media and off they will go again.
Whereas Biden is another situation. His families transactions look really suspect. And hes not the only one. So I would welcome an investigation (but not three years)
This is why I struggle with full blown Trump fanbois. I don't care for one side either way, but does any of what Winger has written make any sort of common sense?
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Trump thinks he cleverer than all of us, of course he will try and get away with stuff
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Since when does having wealth stop you wanting more? Often quite the opposite.
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Everything disparaging that is written about Trump is fake news and part of a conspiracy of big money elites and a corrupt media. So who owns Fox again and how do they differ from the people who own the other networks?
All of these guys, from Trump to Biden to Clinton and down have all dipped their hands into the honey pot
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@Winger said in US Politics:
I would welcome Trumps dealing as President being looked at AGAIN. Why? Because he wouldn't be silly enough not to do anything strictly above board. As he doesn't really need to as he already wealthy. And he knows the fake news media that is really a controlled branch of the elite and their huge money (that Trump seems to threaten unlike most politicians) will not give him an inch of leeway.So bring it on. Look at Chinese influence in the political process by underhand means (it may be all above board). And as part of this look at Trumps dealings AGAIN (but not the main focus to waste even more money). Even though it won't make any difference to the Trump haters. They will see another fake made up article in the fake news media and off they will go again.
Whereas Biden is another situation. His transactions look really suspect. And hes not the only one. So I would welcome a big above board invesyigation
Can you explain what these suspect transactions are and who the others are that you mention. Also what makes them “really suspect” any more than various Trump & Co ones.
I only ask because you don’t appear to realise that the reason people argue against your view is because you actually show zero sign of independently looking at Trump. You ignore qualified fact but believe tweets. You unquestionably believe the Trump narratives.
There are elements of the press that are one eyed but not everything is “fake” when they critique him. Not everything that Trump tweets is fake either but plenty is.
I’m just trying to understand the psyche of someone willing to believe everything that a proven bullshitter says but deliberately ignores fact raised by anyone criticising him.
Oh, and “Trump already wealthy”? He has some money to throw around but most of it isn’t his and what is is it enough for him.
What is your definition of “strictly above board”? Barely legal? Unproven as illegal? -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
"What is your definition of “strictly above board"
One example. Biden stopping the Ukraine investigation of a Company (by withholding money) that his son just happened to be getting large payments from. If Trump had done this the media would be rightly screaming about it.Surely you can agree that this is an example of someone abusing their position. Even of Biden's son had the relevant skill-set and experience to justify these payments Biden still should not have done this. And not only because his son was involved
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
"What is your definition of “strictly above board"
One example. Biden stopping the Ukraine investigation of a Company (by withholding money) that his son just happened to be getting large payments from. If Trump had done this the media would be rightly screaming about it.
You have some evidence of that?
Re: "the small stuff" that you aren't concerned about. It seems to only be 'small' when Trump related, but world ending if smaller from Biden. This is what I don't understand about your logic.
You have still failed to answer what Biden has done to supposedly be in China's pocket OR supported your Ukraine claims.
BTW, I'm not sure if you were aware but the Ukrainian President at the time has categorically denied any interference by anyone.
Yes, Hunter B got a well paying job from a country trying to suck up to the US hierarchy. That stinks. In fact it smells similar to Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China or the Kushner's getting favourable loan terms from China. Both things you pass off as 'small stuff' -
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
show zero sign of independently looking at Trump.
I'm not that concerned about the small stuff. Unless it impacts on the big picture. So I don't like Trump being so close to his daughter and son-in-law. But if Trump moves in the direction I want (less selling the US worker out re globalization and low cost labor etc, stopping pointless wars to help the military industrial complex, Stopping the slow process of removing our free speech and human rights, stopping lets destroy the Wests economy and NZ farming to reduce the temperature by a fraction of one degrees etc) then I'm happy. Its helps that Trump is not boring and so PC
OK, so we’ve established you are American, yeah?
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
You have some evidence of that?
He bragged about doing it
Wow, why have federal prosecutors not seen that and acted on it?
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
Wow, why have federal prosecutors not seen that and acted on it?
A very good question. But maybe because he was vice-president at the time and the key appointments were all on his side
I don't think that's the correct answer
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@Winger said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
Ivanka Trump obtain trademarks to sell goods in China
What really is the issue with this?
Now if her company received a 1 billion loan from a Chinese company. Or the CCP bought a huge value of her products at at grossly inflated price. Or if say his unqualified son or daughter was paid a $3 million consultancy fee by a Chinese Company etc. But trademarks for her crappy products. Big deal
Trademarks for her crappy products. (Left out of trade war tariffs) processed at unusually fast pace just before a policy u-turn on ZTE? Any issues with that?
US Politics