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@Victor-Meldrew without having it verbatim the gist of his speech ahead of the riot was calls to be strong, send a message, convince some Reps (the weak ones - the strong ones were ok) that the election was a rort and to vote down the electoral votes (something, something), then called on the crowd to take a walk up the avenue to express their feelings.
At best it was a stunning lack of any kind of awareness of his influence on that crowd, or what could emerge as mob mentatility kicked in.But one of the most insane things I've read in the last day or two is the (new) Rep Senator who was live tweeting where Pelosi was located in the building during the riot! wt in the actual f? sounds like there are investigations underway about visits/tours she might have interacted with in the days leading up to the event. A few cases of footage where rioters seemed to know the layout of the building and were trying to direct the mob. Seems too crazy to believe but .... yeah.
@Duluth totally agree on your call about the Dem candidates. Not that it was a stunning crop to pick from but they went with Joe for the Obama carry over and Harris as something of a nod to the newer groups emerging. Stink aye.
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@Victor-Meldrew GOP willingness (even if on the down low) to see Trump impeached seems to be growing. I guess they can support it to ensure no Trump in 2024, without having to say they led the calls for impeachment, so the Dems still get cast as trying to get Trump at any and all cost.
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@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
At best it was a stunning lack of any kind of awareness of his influence on that crowd, or what could emerge as mob mentatility kicked in.
Sums up the man.
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@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
Dems still get cast as trying to get Trump at any and all cost.
Could be a smart strategy for the GOP in '24 - particularly if Harris & Biden carry on the divisive rhetoric we've seen in the last few weeks. Bad for the country though.
Not that I'd expect Pelosi to see the danger - too flaky and deranged about Trump.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
I think the even bigger issues are making Trump a martyr, and the proceedings being seen as some sort of Soviet era show trial by revengeful Democrats - ending up being as big a reputational stain as last weeks riots
The way I'm reading the impeachment: they can frame it in such a way to disqualify him from future Presidential elections, so he's not a divisive force in future. Particularly for those GOP who believe they've made a mistake in letting him in the door.
If they don't go down that road and he's just a mouthpiece slanging politicians from the sidelines (as he was well before even deciding to run), they're relying on him fading into irrelevance. Which I don't think has any guarantees.
It's almost as if the Democrats want to keep the country divided.
The Democrats and a growing number of GOP representatives, yes. I don't think it'll come to anything because they know how big a step it is.
I think there is always going to be (and always has been) a level of division that can't be healed. Particularly with the extreme right / white supremacists who have thrown their support behind Trump. This can never be reconciled, and actually shouldn't be.
There are another group who are on the bandwagon and they can move back from the cliff's edge given enough time and education. Better public policy would help with that.
But the system there, and increasingly in other countries, is relying on this sort of shit to gain/maintain power. Meanwhile, public service falls by the wayside...
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Regardless of track record now is the time for Biden/ Harris to make their play. Will they try to be moderate or will they go for broke? They have 4 years to bring people back to them, a smart person would try and tread the middle and unite as many people as possible before 2024. I honestly have no idea what they will do
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@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@nostrildamus said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@Tim said in US Politics:
Biden pick to head DOJ Civil Rights Division wrote Blacks had 'superior physical and mental abilities'
That plus this:
Doesn't fill me with confidence that he is not beholden to the radicals of the party
Not the only ones going after ethnic votes:
Did you not argue that those with power in the Dems are moderate? I'd argue that playing identity politics like that, which is something Trump did as well, makes them pretty far from 'moderate'.
Actually, I wrote they weren't radical lefties - not necessarily the same as what you wrote.
In general, I'm beginning to wonder who doesn't play identity politics. But Trump does/did more than identity politics, and as I have said before I don't think Trump should be simply placed on a left/right spectrum, at least not a simple conservative one.
As to the VP elect, she seems to have critics on both sides of the spectrum.I agree with you re: Trump, he's..... something else
I also agree that both the left and the right play identity politics in different ways. I really don't like it.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
By the way, the whole black people's plight in modern America goes nowhere until the prison industry is gutted and overhauled.
Believe no solution until that is included and talked about often.
convo seems to have moved on a bit but yes, ive been listening to this podcast, Ear hustle, for the last couple of years coming from inside San quentin prison, they are messed up
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@NTA said in US Politics:
I think there is always going to be (and always has been) a level of division that can't be healed. Particularly with the extreme right / white supremacists who have thrown their support behind Trump. This can never be reconciled, and actually shouldn't be.
My contention was that it's the politicians - Trump, Biden, Harris - who don't want to heal division.
There's really fuck-all leadership.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
They have 4 years to bring people back to them, a smart person would try and tread the middle and unite as many people as possible before 2024. I honestly have no idea what they will do
Their utterances so far haven't been too promising.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
There's really fuck-all leadership.
Actual leadership is hard to soundbyte
When most of the electorate don't really have it that bad, proposing big policy is an easy way to get shot down. Look at the ACA being renamed "Obamacare" and then being shot down by bad faith actors.
"They're trying to force you to go to a doctor you couldn't ordinarily afford!" was beautifully crafted craziness...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
They have 4 years to bring people back to them, a smart person would try and tread the middle and unite as many people as possible before 2024. I honestly have no idea what they will do
Their utterances so far haven't been too promising.
Let's judge them by their actions...
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@NTA said in US Politics:
"They're trying to force you to go to a doctor you couldn't ordinarily afford!" was beautifully crafted craziness...
Health care neatly encapsulates it, doesn't it?
Obamacare has been a disaster in many ways - health outcomes have fallen in loads of areas, particularly cancer. You'd expect a sensible debate on important stuff like cancer survival rates, wouldn't you.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
You'd expect a sensible debate on important stuff like cancer survival rates, wouldn't you.
Average voter (not just America):
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@Victor-Meldrew surely it'll come down to tangible actions rather than just words. I think the covid crisis has really exposed the frailty of the US employment/social services systems (or lack of). The whole stimulus saga has pushed some folks to reframe how they look at support from the state in this kind of situation. If people are feeling supported by Govt through covid and post-covid then messages from Biden and co might start to gain traction?
lol, a hell of a lot of ifs, buts, and wishful thinking in there! -
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
If people are feeling supported by Govt through covid and post-covid then messages from Biden and co might start to gain traction?
Depends when the bills come in and need to be repaid, I guess.
I just think the current shit-storm has also exposed the political processes and establishment somewhat. Don't think Biden is any more likely to be able to reach across the political divide than Trump. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@Paekakboyz said in US Politics:
If people are feeling supported by Govt through covid and post-covid then messages from Biden and co might start to gain traction?
Depends when the bills come in and need to be repaid, I guess.
I just think the current shit-storm has also exposed the political processes and establishment somewhat. Don't think Biden is any more likely to be able to reach across the political divide than Trump. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong.
At least he doesn't appear to be mocking and abusing everyone so far (admittedly I am not watching him closely)
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@canefan said in US Politics:
At least he doesn't appear to be mocking and abusing everyone so far (admittedly I am not watching him closely)
That we give thanks that a President (elect) doesn't mock and abuse everyone, says all there is about the state of US politics.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
At least he doesn't appear to be mocking and abusing everyone so far (admittedly I am not watching him closely)
That we give thanks that a President (elect) doesn't mock and abuse everyone says all there is about the state of US politics.
Oh yeah, the bar is waaaaay low
US Politics