Rant: Cyclists, Oz Bureaucracy ....
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561741" data-time="1456797367">
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<p>No evidence of increased safety through mandatory helmet laws I believe?</p>
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<p>no evidence of increased safety or no evidence of increased injury as result of accidents, I expect there is likely to be a bit of a difference between the outcome of accidents with and without helmets?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561739" data-time="1456797253">
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<p>This guy makes the point better than me on why I believe the laws are silly.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.executivestyle.com.au/latest-nsw-cycling-safety-launch-misses-the-mark-glzzv2#ixzz3wWw2Wt2E'>http://www.executivestyle.com.au/latest-nsw-cycling-safety-launch-misses-the-mark-glzzv2#ixzz3wWw2Wt2E</a></p>
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<p>This bit particularly</p>
<strong>The hidden impact</strong>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>One concern is that this law might impact the people who are the least committed of riders – or can least afford to pay for the error. </strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>Sports and commuter cyclists are seen as the predominant bike riders in Australia, but it's easy to forget the unheralded, unrepresented utility riders, especially those on low incomes. </strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>And increased participation is a crucial element of cycling safety – not through creating more enthusiasts, but by encouraging more people who will never view themselves as "cyclists" to get on a bike. </strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>On Tuesday, Anthony Albanese penned an article for Fairfax Media about <a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.smh.com.au/comment/pedal-power-better-facilities-for-cyclists-will-help-in-the-fight-against-congestion-20151229-glw5zc.html'>the benefits of cycling as a way to reduce congestion</a>. </strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>"Smart governments should be doing everything they can to identify impediments to greater use of bicycles," wrote Labor's federal opposition spokesman on transport.</strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>How does this square with new, unheard-of cycling regulations? </strong></p>
<strong>An expensive ride</strong>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>Meanwhile, consider a coastal resident cycling to the beach for a swim in the near future.</strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>To avoid a section of busy road, he rolls onto the footpath – permitted in Queensland, the Northern Territory, the ACT, Tasmania and South Australia (which lifted the ban two months ago) – but illegal in NSW.</strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>He's wearing a broad-brimmed hat to keep off the sun, rather than a helmet - a legal choice in almost 99 per cent of the world's nations, and even in the Northern Territory when you ride on footpaths or bike lanes. That fine will be an astonishing $319, up from $71.</strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>When stopped by a police officer, it turns out he's not carrying ID, for fear of losing it on the beach. Another $106.</strong></p>
<p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Karla, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><strong>All up, he could be liable for some $500 in fines for rolling a few blocks to the beach on a bike.</strong></p>
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<p>Here's a tip for not only this idiot but anyone who can't afford to pay fines...</p>
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<p>DON'T BREAK THE RULES!!</p>
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<p>So basically we are at</p>
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<p>Don't break the rules and carry ya wallet.....?</p>
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<p>I bet the majoirty of cyclists do this. Even those daft looking pistonwristedgibbons at cafes on the weekend and their wallets to by their half caf soy mocha's</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="561742" data-time="1456797556">
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<p>no evidence of increased safety or no evidence of increased injury as result of accidents, I expect there is likely to be a bit of a difference between the outcome of accidents with and without helmets?</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.cycle-helmets.com/netherlands-helmets.html'>http://www.cycle-helmets.com/netherlands-helmets.html</a></p>
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<p>Seeing as we are talking about Australia here I'll elaborate based on that</p>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(46,139,87);font-family:Monaco, 'Andale Mono', 'Courier New', Courier, mono;font-size:11.7px;">In the Netherlands from 2003 to 2007, 27.5% of cyclist casualties admitted to hospital had head or brain injuries.</span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(46,139,87);font-family:Monaco, 'Andale Mono', 'Courier New', Courier, mono;font-size:11.7px;">In Australia in 2005/06, 25.7% of cyclists with serious injuries had head injuries.</span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(46,139,87);font-family:Monaco, 'Andale Mono', 'Courier New', Courier, mono;font-size:11.7px;">Based on these figures, the Netherlands has a 1.8% greater proportion of cyclist head injuries than does Australia. The Netherlands had an average 2,150 cyclist head/brain injuries per year from 2003-2007, compared to 1,122 serious head injuries in Australia in 2005/06.</span><br><br><span style="color:rgb(46,139,87);font-family:Monaco, 'Andale Mono', 'Courier New', Courier, mono;font-size:11.7px;">In the Netherlands from 2003/07, an average 8,000 cyclists were admitted to hospital each year. In Australia in 2005/06, 4,370 cyclists suffered serious injury.</span></p>
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<p>1.8% more head injuries, wow!<br><br>
In a population where almost nobody wears a helmet when riding about town and country. Yep, that seems a fairly manageable level of increased injury. Nobody here is claiming that helmetless riding has zero risk, just that the negatives of helmet compulsion are not backed up by real benefits.</p>
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<p>now if we factor in that On average, every Dutch person cycles 2.5km every day and 93% of the population rides a bike at least once a week. Every Australian cycles about 0.1km every day I think the stats show that the helmets are't helping much.</p>
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<p>is the cycling infrastructure comparable?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="561743" data-time="1456797681">
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<p>Here's a tip for not only this idiot but anyone who can't afford to pay fines...</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>DON'T BREAK THE RULES!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So basically we are at</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't break the rules and carry ya wallet.....?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I bet the majoirty of cyclists do this. Even those daft looking pistonwristedgibbons at cafes on the weekend and their wallets to by their half caf soy mocha's</p>
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<p>OK mate.</p>
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<p>So seeing as you are wealthy enough to afford the fines, it's OK for you to break the road rules in your car (I'm sure you've broken the speed limit before) but it's not OK for those who can't?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="561746" data-time="1456798959">
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<p>is the cycling infrastructure comparable?</p>
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<p>Thers's shitloads of data online bro.. I just posted one set of figures.</p>
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<p>If you are really that interested I suggest the following website</p>
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<p>www.google.com</p> -
Anthony Albanese is perhaps not the best person to be the poster boy for cycling or any physical activity for that matter. Would be like Clive Palmer advocating healthy eating.<br><br>
Agree with the helmet law being excessive. The fact that not even the uber nanny states in Europe force you to wear a helmet should tell you something. -
<p>I'm not really that interested, TBH I just think that sometimes things aren't as black and white as some like to paint them...so was just asking as you come across as someone who appears to know an awful lot on the subject.</p>
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<p>appreciate the link to google though, what exactly does it do, or should I search something else to find out?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="561751" data-time="1456800707">
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<p>I'm not really that interested, TBH I just think that sometimes things aren't as black and white as some like to paint them...so just asking as you seem to profess to know an awful lot on the subject</p>
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<p>appreciate the link to google though, what exactly does it do, or should I search something else to find out?</p>
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<p>It's pretty black and white.</p>
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<p>In every country that has introduced mandatory helmet laws for cyclists, serious injuries to cyclists have increased.</p> -
<p>so is it a conspiracy from cycle helmet manufacturers to get people to wear them, cos if wearing them increases serious injuries, what other explanation is there?</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561753" data-time="1456800855">
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<p>It's pretty black and white.</p>
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<p>In every country that has introduced mandatory helmet laws for cyclists, serious injuries to cyclists have increased.</p>
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<p>But has cause been proven? That stat is pretty meaningless without context. Did countries that do not enforce helmets have a flat rate of injuries? Or did it increase as well? How do they know the percentages without knowing total journies taken?</p>
<p>Perhaps injuries have decreased as a % but increased as mean figure? </p>
<p>How do different countries define 'serious injuries'? Cancer has also increased in countries that introduced helmets.. perhaps helmets cause cancer?</p>
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<p>If that is your definition of black and white....yeah.. nah</p> -
<p>Its the law that is at fault rather than the helmets being questioned.</p>
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<p>This topic has been done to death on cycling forums.</p>
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<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://crag.asn.au/the-paradox-of-bicycle-helmets/'>http://crag.asn.au/the-paradox-of-bicycle-helmets/</a></p> -
<p>so the law to wear helmets are at fault for making more injuries?</p>
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<p>Surely cycling forums would be a tad bias for things, given your stance for having to carry ID as a cyclist?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="561757" data-time="1456801529">
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<p>so the law to wear helmets are at fault for making more injuries?</p>
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<p>Surely cycling forums would be a tad bias for things, given your stance for having to carry ID as a cyclist?</p>
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<p>Yes, that's what the data shows.</p> -
<p>What's ridiculous is that grown men have to wear a helmet while cycling through a park or a suburban bike path. </p>
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<p>It should be compulsory if you're riding on a major road and busy roads in the city centre. It should also be compulsory for children up to a certain age. I have no intention of riding on a road or in traffic, yet if I should want to cycle one of the lovely bike paths in my area (which were built at great expense and a safe distance from any traffic), I need both a helmet and (at least in NSW) a bloody ID. Madness.</p> -
<p>obviously there are issues all the time in the media in NZ about farmers not wearing helmets on their bikes too.</p>