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@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@kiwiwomble Those wide flat and straight roads are one of the absolutely key reasons dropping trams in the middle of a few of them makes sense in Chch. Ok I've certainly underestimated the cost of doing it, but logistically in comparison to other cities ala Sydney as an example, it's gotta be easier and cheaper.
Just to be clear, I was agreeing, maybe not now but I feel it was a missed opportunity when earthquake repairs were being done
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@kiwiwomble yep, all good, got that.
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Light rail if done properly has advantages over both HR and buses,
By done properly I mean grade separated, prioritised tracks through densely populated urban areas.
The first thing to discount is buses. They run into capacity issues way too soon Plus the old joke about waiting for ever for a bus and then they all turn up together is true. The routes tend to concertina at areas with delays. You also have issues at the terminating station with a turnaround whereas rail simply reverses out. They are much slower mainly because of the reasons above and also because embarcation dwell times are much slower (one door etc)
Heavy rail is much more expensive to build and typically doesn't run through where the people are unless you underground it which is prohibitively expensive. It does carry even more people than LR Though but needs bigger more expensive stations and has fewer of them so the catchment area is smaller.
The other alternative is light metro which is effectively LR which is effectively LR underground with again fewer more expensive stations abut bigger trains and faster dwell times plus you can run driverless trains.
Akl Transport were ready to proceed with LR down Dominion Road to Mt Roskill until Labour got in and intervened. The plans were pretty much done and would have resolved bus capacity issues on Dominion Road. It would have meant pedestrianising Queen Street and was planned to result in the rejuvenation of Dominion Road.
Then Labour and particularly muppet Phil Twyford got involved and all that has happened is we have ended up with years of delays and now (just announced) we have a hybrid system which is trying to be all things to all people and probably (if it ever gets built) is going to fail because it is heavily compromised.
It is undergound for a long way which means nothing is done about the issues on Dominion Road, it avoids any retail centres so as not to annoy retailers but dog legs to the Uni and a housing development by Kainga Ora in Three Kings and into Onehunga and Mangere town centres to the airport. All this means it is a longer route so the speed advantages of the tunnels are then negated.
Plus most importantly it is eye wateringly expensive. For the proposed price you could build AT's original proposition plus a (much needed) similar grade separated LR system from the CBD to Westgate.
As I said originally LR done properly works well (plenty of examples overseas) The proposed Akl solution is a camel of a plan. I thought Sydney ridership had improved - although the cost and delays on that system were staggering. Mind you Sydney has had its fair share of Transport bungles the Cahill freeway and rail to the airport spring to mind.
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@donsteppa is it light rail? i thought city rail loop was heavy rail connecting with the wider rail network
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@donsteppa is it light rail? i thought city rail loop was heavy rail connecting with the wider rail network
There's the rail loop which is heavy rail - https://www.cityraillink.co.nz/ and then the new light rail proposal - which I see has a new website that I'm yet to explore... https://www.lightrail.co.nz/
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@donsteppa Cost plus the mooted extension to the north shore. HR wouldn't cope with the gradient up to Constellation Station which would mean an expensive tunnel which in turn would mean a very deep station which means poor access. Bound to be other reasons as well but that's off the top of my head
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if you could all wind back the rail bashing, its literally paying my mortgage currently rail is great and every city should have more of it
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@dogmeat said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Light rail if done properly has advantages over both HR and buses,
By done properly I mean
See previous response.
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I'll just add that I'm a big fan of well designed cycleways that get lycra clad piston wristed gibbons off the roads. And excellent transit systems (Tokyo, Honkers).
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Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
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@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
You'll be flavour of the month in Kaiapoi and Rolleston.
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@mariner4life Oh, and get back on your meat taxi, Queenslander
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@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
You'll be flavour of the month in Kaiapoi and Rolleston.
those aren't even real places
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@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
You'll be flavour of the month in Kaiapoi and Rolleston.
Perhaps if those who live closer are on bikes it leaves more room on the roads for those who need to come in from further ...
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@majorrage said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
You'll be flavour of the month in Kaiapoi and Rolleston.
Perhaps if those who live closer are on bikes it leaves more room on the roads for those who need to come in from further ...
Hey CCC rate payers, let's spend all your money on bike lanes so those absconders from Selwyn and Waimak have a nice easy commute into town...love that marketing
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@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@majorrage said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@mariner4life said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
Christchurch is a tiny area of 280 square kms and less than 400k people. fucking walk or take a bus
actually, it's flat and featureless, bikes make excellent sense
You'll be flavour of the month in Kaiapoi and Rolleston.
Perhaps if those who live closer are on bikes it leaves more room on the roads for those who need to come in from further ...
Hey CCC rate payers, let's spend all your money on bike lanes so those absconders from Selwyn and Waimak have a nice easy commute into town...love that marketing
Nice attitude.
Cities with bikes are awesome. Clean, fresh and much quieter.
I’ll probably never set foot in Chch again anyway so guess my opinion ain’t relevant.
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@kiwiwomble said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@shark said in The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail):
@kiwiwomble Those wide flat and straight roads are one of the absolutely key reasons dropping trams in the middle of a few of them makes sense in Chch. Ok I've certainly underestimated the cost of doing it, but logistically in comparison to other cities ala Sydney as an example, it's gotta be easier and cheaper.
Just to be clear, I was agreeing, maybe not now but I feel it was a missed opportunity when earthquake repairs were being done
That was a massive missed opportunity to rethink public transport in and around Christchurch, total dropped ball there (note that's ECan, not CCC in this particular case). I remember doing a focus group on it, but it went nowhere unfortunately because everyone baulked at the cost.
The CCC And Cycleways (vs Light Rail)