-
@jegga said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@gollum said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
All the refugees should have stayed in neighboring countries. They were not in danger there, and were in a position to be easily transferred back. The best place for dispossessed people is back in thier own country.
As I said.. somewhere else, that has been what has happened till recently, but with 1.5m in Lebanon - a country of 6.5m people it can't cope. There is already Cholora & Typhoid breaking out in camps there & the camps themselves are, well, exactly what you would expect when 1.5m turn up in a tiny country with no cash... while Lebanon is always right on the edge of civil war anyway.
If a million Aussie refugees turned up in NZ could we cope? Could we fuck. We struggled to get shitroll to tourists in Kaikora. And then when another million arrive?
A lot of the "solutions" only work if you completely ignore the actual world. Not just the politics, logistics & economics but the geography too.
The borders of Syria are Turkey - taken 2.5m already, Lebanon (1.5m) Jordan (millionish) Iraq, fucking war zone but still taken a lot. And also the Iraq side is 90% desert, infact you have to cross miles of ISIS controlled desert to get to the Iraqi desert. And of course Israel. Who probably are not that keen...
So which neighboring countries would you put them in?
Is I don't really care as long as they don't come here an option?
Unfortunately mate, not for everyone.
-
@Catogrande said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@jegga said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@gollum said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
All the refugees should have stayed in neighboring countries. They were not in danger there, and were in a position to be easily transferred back. The best place for dispossessed people is back in thier own country.
As I said.. somewhere else, that has been what has happened till recently, but with 1.5m in Lebanon - a country of 6.5m people it can't cope. There is already Cholora & Typhoid breaking out in camps there & the camps themselves are, well, exactly what you would expect when 1.5m turn up in a tiny country with no cash... while Lebanon is always right on the edge of civil war anyway.
If a million Aussie refugees turned up in NZ could we cope? Could we fuck. We struggled to get shitroll to tourists in Kaikora. And then when another million arrive?
A lot of the "solutions" only work if you completely ignore the actual world. Not just the politics, logistics & economics but the geography too.
The borders of Syria are Turkey - taken 2.5m already, Lebanon (1.5m) Jordan (millionish) Iraq, fucking war zone but still taken a lot. And also the Iraq side is 90% desert, infact you have to cross miles of ISIS controlled desert to get to the Iraqi desert. And of course Israel. Who probably are not that keen...
So which neighboring countries would you put them in?
Is I don't really care as long as they don't come here an option?
Unfortunately mate, not for everyone.
You have my sympathy there, sometimes being miles from anywhere has its advantages.
-
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
What I find absurdly naive, is the argument above that those pouring into Europe are all starving Syrians who will die if they don't get to Europe. What complete horseshit.
I am not sure who claimed that, it certainly was not me. There are plenty of other people coming into Europe and certainly there were some that used the Syrian crisis as an opportunity. But you can't deny that given the choice of living in that war zone or doing anything they could to get out. Plenty of people took insane risks to get away and thousands died trying. Most north African economic immigrants that come illegally are not bothering to travel overland through half of Europe though they just get a ferry to Spain.
A working asylum system should find those that have no right to be here and deport them. It will take time though and I am happy to take the cost of that over the alternative of blocking them on the border and setting up a barricade in the med to send back the boats and forcing people to live in a war zone.
I don't expect everyone to agree with my view. I would love to hear how someone could do better, without "Meddling" or passing the buck to some other country.
Yes you did. You said that Merkel had no other option and talked about them "starving to death on your doorstep". And yes there were plenty of other options proposed by other people, you just choose to ignore them.
I don't want to be rude because your idealism is admirable, but I question your grasp on reality. Have you ever talked to someone involved in the asylum/deportation process or even bothered to read about it? Are you aware of the time, money and resources involved in processing and deporting a single person? By hey, I guess you personally won't be involved with that process and you personally won't have to share your neighbourhoods and towns with "starving" young men. Other people can sort out and deal with the consequences while you virtue signal.
I totally get that people coming from a shithole will want to get to a better country (or one offering heaps of free shit). Shit, if I was a young man from these places I might even try in on myself. But, that does not mean that Europe has an obligation to throw open it's borders to everyone wanting to come and then "figure it out from there". That's farking insane.
I m sorry you are wrong if you re-read what I wrote it was in response to Franks very specific question about how would a "liberal" handle the syrian refugee crisis. I answered with my ideas something that no one else has done regardless of their political persuasion. I did not say let everyone in the world in and let them sort it out later. i said let the refugees in and sort it out later. They were a very specific group in a very specific location at the time.
Before you start throwing around accusations about what my involvement with this process is I think its only fair that you disclose yours? Assuming you live in mainland Europe as I do then we will probably be relatively equally affected by the costs of this decision.
I have met several refugees and several Syrian ones at that I am acutely aware of the processes they have to go through. My town does have social housing available for refugees and is currently in the process of building more as mandated by the government. Though only a small percentage will actually be used for refugees. As the majority is earmarked for low income French families. I won't devolve what I have done personally as I am not some grandstanding prick.
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel You've got two sides of the same coin there RS. Firstly, in a manner of speaking you are agreeing with Mooshld in that there is not really an answer to the refugee problem. You both see this and neither of you can offer realistic argument for what should be or should have been done. This is not surprising as the problem is so huge.
Secondly, your point about the Schengen Agreement is quite correct. With Merkel (and any others) accepting refugees into their country they are, de facto, accepting them into all the other Schengen states. So yes the Schengen Agreement is now fucked up.
But what is the answer? Fucked if I know.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
-
@Catogrande said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel You've got two sides of the same coin there RS. Firstly, in a manner of speaking you are agreeing with Mooshld in that there is not really an answer to the refugee problem. You both see this and neither of you can offer realistic argument for what should be or should have been done. This is not surprising as the problem is so huge.
Secondly, your point about the Schengen Agreement is quite correct. With Merkel (and any others) accepting refugees into their country they are, de facto, accepting them into all the other Schengen states. So yes the Schengen Agreement is now fucked up.
But what is the answer? Fucked if I know.
Firstly I'd note that if Europe (or Northern Europe in particular) didn't offer such generous benefits, it's highly doubtful that such huge numbers would be coming over. I get that there are major push factors from the Syrian conflict, but when the majority of those coming in are military age men, then you have to seriously question whether those who actually make it to Europe are those who are most in need.
-
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
So basically you let everyone in and then take it from there? For the reasons I have outlined above, that is not a particularly sensible option.
So since I no longer live in Europe I can't have an opinion on this or have a stake in it? Cheers for that.
That last comment just typifies your entire argument on this. All emotion and absolutely no common sense. I believe there are 60 million refugees in the world and God knows how many billions more who live in the worst kind of poverty. How many do you think Europe should take in? How many is too many?
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Catogrande said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel You've got two sides of the same coin there RS. Firstly, in a manner of speaking you are agreeing with Mooshld in that there is not really an answer to the refugee problem. You both see this and neither of you can offer realistic argument for what should be or should have been done. This is not surprising as the problem is so huge.
Secondly, your point about the Schengen Agreement is quite correct. With Merkel (and any others) accepting refugees into their country they are, de facto, accepting them into all the other Schengen states. So yes the Schengen Agreement is now fucked up.
But what is the answer? Fucked if I know.
Firstly I'd note that if Europe (or Northern Europe in particular) didn't offer such generous benefits, it's highly doubtful that such huge numbers would be coming over. I get that there are major push factors from the Syrian conflict, but when the majority of those coming in are military age men, then you have to seriously question whether those who actually make it to Europe are those who are most in need.
Your point on benefit handouts has some merit and TBH we have enough giro bludgers of our own not to want too many more, but this is a side issue really. Yeah, the lifestyles on offer in many N European countries has to be an incentive but in reality what is driving these people northwards is the lack of acceptance or lack of resources in the southern countries. If you were to draw a straight line between Syria and Germany or Syria and the UK as examples, then which countries along the way are viable options? Turkey? They've already taken a shed load. Greece? Bankrupt. The Balkan States? Fuck this, it's no better than Syria plus they don't want us. Austria? Taken loads. Italy? Taken loads. France? Taken loads. All the neighbouring countries to Syria have already been dealt with by @gollum better than I could have done.
No-one needs to be told that this thing is fucked into a cocked hat. What we need are strategies put in place to handle what has already happened and to manage any further problems. It is absolutely no bloody good everyone shouting that this should never have been allowed. It's already happened. Now we have to deal with it.
As a start I'd like to see some sort of action taken against the scum that traffic on people's misery - if that's at all possible. More as a punishment than any thought that it might have a significant enough effect.
That thing about the majority being men of a military age being the majority, well I just don't know. We hear anecdotal evidence that there is a large number and then we hear Merkel saying the opposite. Do I trust anecdotal evidence? No. Do i trust Merkel on this? No. However what we can unequivocally say is that the majority of the terrorist atrocities since the refugee crisis have been undertaken not by people coming to Europe as Syrian refugees but either as migrants, economic or otherwise or people already here as s second or third gen immigrants. So the rhetoric of refugees equals terrorism does not yet hold water and just fuels bigotry.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
So basically you let everyone in and then take it from there? For the reasons I have outlined above, that is not a particularly sensible option.
So since I no longer live in Europe I can't have an opinion on this or have a stake in it? Cheers for that.
That last comment just typifies your entire argument on this. All emotion and absolutely no common sense. I believe there are 60 million refugees in the world and God knows how many billions more who live in the worst kind of poverty. How many do you think Europe should take in? How many is too many?
Again no idea the subject is "Syrian refugee crisis"! Its not solve all the worlds problems.
I never said you can't have an opinion I said you don't have to foot the bill. As you implied I had no personal costs in this which I do. I have every right to be bitter that my taxes will go up and my property values will go down when the new social housing gets built. But I accept it as worth it. Are you intentionally twisting my words or is there some other issue here, where you like me reiterating every statement I make. You don't like it as a solution but you don't have to pay for it. I am happy to pay for it.
I would counter that your argument doesn't contain enough emotion these are real people. You can't leave them just hanging around until you come up with the perfect solution, sometimes you have to act and can't wait for someone else to step up.
-
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
So basically you let everyone in and then take it from there? For the reasons I have outlined above, that is not a particularly sensible option.
So since I no longer live in Europe I can't have an opinion on this or have a stake in it? Cheers for that.
That last comment just typifies your entire argument on this. All emotion and absolutely no common sense. I believe there are 60 million refugees in the world and God knows how many billions more who live in the worst kind of poverty. How many do you think Europe should take in? How many is too many?
Again no idea the subject is "Syrian refugee crisis"! Its not solve all the worlds problems.
I never said you can't have an opinion I said you don't have to foot the bill. As you implied I had no personal costs in this which I do. I have every right to be bitter that my taxes will go up and my property values will go down when the new social housing gets built. But I accept it as worth it. Are you intentionally twisting my words or is there some other issue here, where you like me reiterating every statement I make. You don't like it as a solution but you don't have to pay for it. I am happy to pay for it.
I would counter that your argument doesn't contain enough emotion these are real people. You can't leave them just hanging around until you come up with the perfect solution, sometimes you have to act and can't wait for someone else to step up.
What relevance is me footing the bill to this discussion? I lived in Norway for 12 years, I have a European passport, my wife and kids are European citizens. Again, what is the relevance of this when concerning me giving an opinion about this matter? I'm sorry to hear that you'll suffer financial hardship through all of this, but I'm sure you'll ride it out.
-
@Catogrande said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Catogrande said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel You've got two sides of the same coin there RS. Firstly, in a manner of speaking you are agreeing with Mooshld in that there is not really an answer to the refugee problem. You both see this and neither of you can offer realistic argument for what should be or should have been done. This is not surprising as the problem is so huge.
Secondly, your point about the Schengen Agreement is quite correct. With Merkel (and any others) accepting refugees into their country they are, de facto, accepting them into all the other Schengen states. So yes the Schengen Agreement is now fucked up.
But what is the answer? Fucked if I know.
Firstly I'd note that if Europe (or Northern Europe in particular) didn't offer such generous benefits, it's highly doubtful that such huge numbers would be coming over. I get that there are major push factors from the Syrian conflict, but when the majority of those coming in are military age men, then you have to seriously question whether those who actually make it to Europe are those who are most in need.
Your point on benefit handouts has some merit and TBH we have enough giro bludgers of our own not to want too many more, but this is a side issue really. Yeah, the lifestyles on offer in many N European countries has to be an incentive but in reality what is driving these people northwards is the lack of acceptance or lack of resources in the southern countries. If you were to draw a straight line between Syria and Germany or Syria and the UK as examples, then which countries along the way are viable options? Turkey? They've already taken a shed load. Greece? Bankrupt. The Balkan States? Fuck this, it's no better than Syria plus they don't want us. Austria? Taken loads. Italy? Taken loads. France? Taken loads. All the neighbouring countries to Syria have already been dealt with by @gollum better than I could have done.
No-one needs to be told that this thing is fucked into a cocked hat. What we need are strategies put in place to handle what has already happened and to manage any further problems. It is absolutely no bloody good everyone shouting that this should never have been allowed. It's already happened. Now we have to deal with it.
As a start I'd like to see some sort of action taken against the scum that traffic on people's misery - if that's at all possible. More as a punishment than any thought that it might have a significant enough effect.
That thing about the majority being men of a military age being the majority, well I just don't know. We hear anecdotal evidence that there is a large number and then we hear Merkel saying the opposite. Do I trust anecdotal evidence? No. Do i trust Merkel on this? No. However what we can unequivocally say is that the majority of the terrorist atrocities since the refugee crisis have been undertaken not by people coming to Europe as Syrian refugees but either as migrants, economic or otherwise or people already here as s second or third gen immigrants. So the rhetoric of refugees equals terrorism does not yet hold water and just fuels bigotry.
Great post.
There are no accurate demographics yet on the breakdown of refugees from Syria, so what if young men of military age want out, wouldn't you?. There are no statistics yet about what percentage end up totally supported by government benefits.
What we do know is ISIS are using radaclised economic immigrants and locals to stir shit up so the government and local population responds and changes their sentiments. Then they get more willing fighters who think the west is trying to fuck them over.
As an aside, my running buddy is a devout muslim (which makes him fuck all use over Ramadan) we chat about this stuff occasionally usually after something happens in the news. He has told me some things that really changed my perception. I have other muslim friends but never really gotten into any of the kind of chats you would 10K into a 20K run. Many of his views would be more aligned with RS and Baron then mine but he thinks its hilarious that anyone could think there is only one type of Islam.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
So basically you let everyone in and then take it from there? For the reasons I have outlined above, that is not a particularly sensible option.
So since I no longer live in Europe I can't have an opinion on this or have a stake in it? Cheers for that.
That last comment just typifies your entire argument on this. All emotion and absolutely no common sense. I believe there are 60 million refugees in the world and God knows how many billions more who live in the worst kind of poverty. How many do you think Europe should take in? How many is too many?
Again no idea the subject is "Syrian refugee crisis"! Its not solve all the worlds problems.
I never said you can't have an opinion I said you don't have to foot the bill. As you implied I had no personal costs in this which I do. I have every right to be bitter that my taxes will go up and my property values will go down when the new social housing gets built. But I accept it as worth it. Are you intentionally twisting my words or is there some other issue here, where you like me reiterating every statement I make. You don't like it as a solution but you don't have to pay for it. I am happy to pay for it.
I would counter that your argument doesn't contain enough emotion these are real people. You can't leave them just hanging around until you come up with the perfect solution, sometimes you have to act and can't wait for someone else to step up.
What relevance is me footing the bill to this discussion? I lived in Norway for 12 years, I have a European passport, my wife and kids are European citizens. Again, what is the relevance of this when concerning me giving an opinion about this matter? I'm sorry to hear that you'll suffer financial hardship through all of this, but I'm sure you'll ride it out.
Its right there in the quoted text. It was a response to your assumption that it doesn't affect me directly so I could safely hold the liberal opinion that I do. Now its all cleared up, it does and will affect me in the future, financially socially and maybe even in terms of security. It would affect you too, if you ever chose to come back. I get that it sucks to have your options limited.
Think I'm going to leave it there, if you want to make snide remarks at my personal situation based on the 0 personal contact we have had, go for it mate. But you don't have a clue about the sort of financial position my family are in, or what hardships I might have.
-
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@mooshld said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
Let the refugees in and sort it out later? What, like Merkel did? I'm sorry you've lost me there. How on earth are you supposed to do that?
As for involvement. I lived in Norway for 12 years. I have some good friends who work with immigration and asylum matters (verifying evidence, recommendations, appeals etc). The caseload and cost for one person is enormous. How do you verify what someone is saying when the place they claim they come from is under ISIS control? Better still, how do you send them back? When the sheer volume of people is as enormous as you have in Germany, it's impossible to have proper control of the process.
At a personal level, I've had work relating to customs and the police in connection with border control, specifically pertaining to EU/EEA policy and implementation. To say that Merkel fucked up the entire Schengen process is the understatement of the century.
What do you mean how do you do that you do exactly what she did. You open the border you send a fuckload of buses down the motorway, you get them on special trains and you have 100's of people who were ferrying them in personal cars.. Then when they arrive you document them and begin their asylum applications.
So you don't live in Europe now and you don't have to foot the bill for this operation. Thanks for clearing that up.
I am not sure why Frank never replied to my anwser after asking the question I am starting to suspect he is just here to stir things up. Anyway I gave my 2c. Im happy with the situation and happy with the level of risk it introduces to my family and my life.
Merry xmas to all and I hope none of you ever have to make the kind of decisions for your family that those refugees had to make.
So basically you let everyone in and then take it from there? For the reasons I have outlined above, that is not a particularly sensible option.
So since I no longer live in Europe I can't have an opinion on this or have a stake in it? Cheers for that.
That last comment just typifies your entire argument on this. All emotion and absolutely no common sense. I believe there are 60 million refugees in the world and God knows how many billions more who live in the worst kind of poverty. How many do you think Europe should take in? How many is too many?
Again no idea the subject is "Syrian refugee crisis"! Its not solve all the worlds problems.
I never said you can't have an opinion I said you don't have to foot the bill. As you implied I had no personal costs in this which I do. I have every right to be bitter that my taxes will go up and my property values will go down when the new social housing gets built. But I accept it as worth it. Are you intentionally twisting my words or is there some other issue here, where you like me reiterating every statement I make. You don't like it as a solution but you don't have to pay for it. I am happy to pay for it.
I would counter that your argument doesn't contain enough emotion these are real people. You can't leave them just hanging around until you come up with the perfect solution, sometimes you have to act and can't wait for someone else to step up.
What relevance is me footing the bill to this discussion? I lived in Norway for 12 years, I have a European passport, my wife and kids are European citizens. Again, what is the relevance of this when concerning me giving an opinion about this matter? I'm sorry to hear that you'll suffer financial hardship through all of this, but I'm sure you'll ride it out.
Its right there in the quoted text. It was a response to your assumption that it doesn't affect me directly so I could safely hold the liberal opinion that I do. Now its all cleared up, it does and will affect me in the future, financially socially and maybe even in terms of security. It would affect you too, if you ever chose to come back. I get that it sucks to have your options limited.
Think I'm going to leave it there, if you want to make snide remarks at my personal situation based on the 0 personal contact we have had, go for it mate. But you don't have a clue about the sort of financial position my family are in, or what hardships I might have.
I don't care about your financial position. My initial remarks were to your incredibly naïve and emotive comments about this situation and ignorance of the asylum process and what it entails.
-
@jegga said in The Failed policy of Multiculturalism:
@NTA Terror plot in Melbourne. Surprise! They weren't radical Presbyterians.
Good thing that we don't have a mass migration to ensure these plots actually get carried out, eh?
More pointedly, it shows is the value proposition of being a lone nut job, "inspired" by ISIS or some other bunch of cockless wannabes. Less likely to get caught that way. Particularly as you run the risk of being tipped off by your own family if you tell anyone about it.
If you plan something, particularly with other people in your contacts list, our authorities are generally going to find you. Money well spent, despite what the privacy nutters and arch-libertarians say.
However, if you walk into a coffee shop that you've attended for months, as a harmless whacko with domestic violence issues, you can pull out a shotgun and hold a bunch of people hostage. Some of them might die due to your actions directly, others indirectly.
If you're a 15yo kid you can shoot an unarmed man in broad daylight outside a police building in Parramatta and nobody will see you coming.
We have a long and noble history of [Islamic terrorism since 1915] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Broken_Hill) (though some say this more about the Ottoman loyalty as opposed to religious fervour, being a war and all). In that whole time we've only lost a handful of people due to Islamic terror, thanks to the good work of our authorities. And the relative inability of the plotters.
Though it begs the question: if Islam is the problem, and NOT the recent work of groups like ISIS and the general clusterfuck that is the Middle East over the last 30 years, why doesn't this list of terrorism incidents include regular updates from the time Muslims arrived in this country in the 1840s?
-
I just got myself curious about the Muslim population in NZ (ours is about 2.2%) and was reading through wikipedia when I came across this:
In 2006, two newspapers in New Zealand decided to republish controversial Danish cartoons depicting Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. The Muslim community registered their displeasure through press statements and a small peaceful march in Auckland. The editors said they did not mean offence but would not back down. Prime Minister Helen Clark and opposition leader Don Brash both made statements that the cartoons were not appreciated if they deeply offended members of the New Zealand community, but that such decisions were for editors to make, not politicians. Muslim leaders and the editors got together with the Race Relations office, and Jewish and Christian representatives in Wellington. As a result of this meeting the editors said they would not apologise but in good faith would refrain from publishing the offending images again. The New Zealand Muslim leadership, through FIANZ, then proceeded in good faith to consider the matter closed, and drafted letters to 52 Muslim countries reversing their earlier stance and asking that New Zealand products not be boycotted.
Look at that! Bit of reasonable discussion. Credit to all parties involved in that.
(NZ followers of Islam are 1.18% of the population according to another page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_New_Zealand)
EDIT: you wouldn't fucking believe it, but just as I was posting this a fucking JW rang the doorbell. Thank fuck for the video doorbell.
-
@taniwharugby that's another advantage of acreage. If that sign ever stops working, put a few bullets through it. From the back.
I was going to open the door up for a bit of ventilation, too, but got distracted. Best day ever.
-
@NTA our driveway is only 30m long,45m from the road....and often I have been standing on my deck when they have come to the gate, they just wave and still put it in our mailbox, bliss...but yeah being semi-rural is probably part of it.
The Failed policy of Multiculturalism