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I doubt the US would be doing this without China's blessing. Seems they've finally had enough, which is ironic considering they're pretty much the reason the regime survived the Korean War and has lasted this long.
It would be interesting to know what the average South Korean feels about potential reunification. The Germans struggled enough, but East Germany was a farking Ferrari compared to the broken Trabant that is North Korea. How do you reunify when one of the countries has been stuck in a time warp for about 50 years? Very sad situation.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in North Korea:
I doubt the US would be doing this without China's blessing. Seems they've finally had enough, which is ironic considering they're pretty much the reason the regime survived the Korean War and has lasted this long.
It would be interesting to know what the average South Korean feels about potential reunification. The Germans struggled enough, but East Germany was a farking Ferrari compared to the broken Trabant that is North Korea. How do you reunify when one of the countries has been stuck in a time warp for about 50 years? Very sad situation.
I don't think the timing of the Chinese premier's visit to Washington and this standoff is a coincidence. Certainly I don't expect China was unaware, they are an economic powerhouse now, and NK is bad for business
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@canefan said in North Korea:
Certainly I don't expect China was unaware, they are an economic powerhouse now, and NK is bad for business
NK is China's ace card tho'. a few months back - and right thru the election China was, apparently, going to be on the receiving end of a yuge trade war, santions, you name it. Then once in office the briefing goes "so this is NK" and now China is awesome. China has zero incentive to fully disarm NK, it gives them huge leverage, its very, very good for business.
@Rugger-Quizzes said in North Korea:
Not sure how having NK there benefits China. No NK would mean fewer US troops in East Asia for a start.
By that logic no hostile Japan after WW2 means no US bases in Phillipines, Japan, Korea etc. NK goes down China is fully aware that a unified Korea is pro US & just a bigger base right on their doorstep. Take a look at US bases in Asia pre WW2, then post WW2, Same in Middle East pre gulf war / post gulf war, Africa pre Somalia / post Somalia. The US does not scale back after entering a region.
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@gollum said in North Korea:
NK goes down China is fully aware that a unified Korea is pro US & just a bigger base right on their doorstep. Take a look at US bases in Asia pre WW2, then post WW2, Same in Middle East pre gulf war / post gulf war, Africa pre Somalia / post Somalia. The US does not scale back after entering a region.
Which is kind of dumb because the Yanks can park all the tanks they want across the Yalu from Manchuria - its a big fucking place compared to NK.
Better off keeping things at the 38th parallel. Sure the NK regime could shell Seoul right now, but there are some big fucking hills in the way.
I read at series my brother picked up (http://www.ian-slater.com/bibliography.php) which did some interesting things in terms of conflict.
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By the sounds of it there's some positive diplomacy going on between the US and China.
Which isn't surprising because this relationship is going to be critical on several fronts beyond the current NK issue. There's some major economic issues that China will want Trump to stick to his word on.
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@ACT-Crusader said in North Korea:
By the sounds of it there's some positive diplomacy going on between the US and China.
Which isn't surprising because this relationship is going to be critical on several fronts beyond the current NK issue. There's some major economic issues that China will want Trump to stick to his word on.
Depends who the word was given to. They actually want him to fully go back on his word in every single trade area that he got elected on.
That's already looking good, he pledged to denounce China as a currency manipulator, that got tossed a week ago etc.. Now he needs to roll on everything else too. But this is why they (the Chinese) have no interest in fully "solving" the issue. You solve NK, Trump can immediately go back to his election plays & go "I was playing China!".
China has huge leverage here, the US desperately need something to happen other than full on war. War would be a terrible result, and for Trump - the position he's in now, nothing happening would be a terrible result too. So the Chinese just have to offer something - even just a freeze on the nukes overseen by China with zero other changes & they can ask for literally anything they want. They don't even have to engineer a coup.
Hell, they could even try get the US to throw the whole South China Sea issue under the bus. That feels like a stretch, but its probably on the table.
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I found this in equal parts interesting and disturbing.
I also wonder about the timing of the publication of this and whether it's part of a push to get "us" the public to used to the idea that repacing KJU is an act of humanitarianism.
Frankly I think it would be.
But with what? Ideally we in the west would want reunification of North with South (like an Asian East-West Germany * ). But surely China won't want that?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11847844
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- just a quick question to those who think they have a better handle on world politics ... how has the reunifixation of the Krauts worked out? Were there issues? Are there still issues?
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@booboo said in North Korea:
how has the reunifixation of the Krauts worked out? Were there issues? Are there still issues?
Collective guilt has manifested itself in ze Germans placing a former member of the Stasi as their Head of State and the East is still an economically destitute area despite pouring billions into it.
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@booboo said in North Korea:
I found this in equal parts interesting and disturbing.
I also wonder about the timing of the publication of this and whether it's part of a push to get "us" the public to used to the idea that repacing KJU is an act of humanitarianism.
Frankly I think it would be.
But with what? Ideally we in the west would want reunification of North with South (like an Asian East-West Germany * ). But surely China won't want that?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11847844
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- just a quick question to those who think they have a better handle on world politics ... how has the reunifixation of the Krauts worked out? Were there issues? Are there still issues?
Massive issues and alot of resentment on both sides. It's almost 30 years since reunification so the differences aren't as clearly defined as they once were.
It's an absolute tragedy what communism does to a country. Anybody who even flirts with that vile ideology needs their head examined. Just look at West and East Germany to understand why. To think they built a fucking wall to stop their citizens leaving. That's a ringing endorsement of the communist paradise.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in North Korea:
Just look at West and East Germany to understand why. To think they built a fucking wall to stop their citizens leaving. That's a ringing endorsement of the communist paradise.
Alternative fact: It was to keep the downtrodden capitalists out as punishment.
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So anyway, what do people think of the North Korea issue? Feels to me like years of inaction has led us to the point where they can fire nuclear warheads across the ocean, but I really don't know a great deal about it - seems a bit concerning though.
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
So anyway, what do people think of the North Korea issue? Feels to me like years of inaction has led us to the point where they can fire nuclear warheads across the ocean, but I really don't know a great deal about it - seems a bit concerning though.
I agree about years of inaction but disagree that jumping to aggression in return is the best way to go.
What is interesting about the intel leak is that no one from the WH is decrying what truly could be a national security leak of a highly classified report. Are they now using the leak culture they supposedly hate to their own benefit? -
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
So anyway, what do people think of the North Korea issue? Feels to me like years of inaction has led us to the point where they can fire nuclear warheads across the ocean, but I really don't know a great deal about it - seems a bit concerning though.
I agree about years of inaction but disagree that jumping to aggression in return is the best way to go.
What is interesting about the intel leak is that no one from the WH is decrying what truly could be a national security leak of a highly classified report. Are they now using the leak culture they supposedly hate to their own benefit?That is a pretty standard political tool so it wouldn't be at all surprising.
Somewhat funny though.
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
So anyway, what do people think of the North Korea issue? Feels to me like years of inaction has led us to the point where they can fire nuclear warheads across the ocean, but I really don't know a great deal about it - seems a bit concerning though.
I agree about years of inaction but disagree that jumping to aggression in return is the best way to go.
What is interesting about the intel leak is that no one from the WH is decrying what truly could be a national security leak of a highly classified report. Are they now using the leak culture they supposedly hate to their own benefit?That is a pretty standard political tool so it wouldn't be at all surprising.
Somewhat funny though.
Especially when there is no need to leak when Trump could simply say 'I have received intelligence that......'
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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
So anyway, what do people think of the North Korea issue? Feels to me like years of inaction has led us to the point where they can fire nuclear warheads across the ocean, but I really don't know a great deal about it - seems a bit concerning though.
Don't know.
In an NZ context, it seems like North Korea is a bit like the Mongrel Mob.
What do you do about them?
It's tempting to nuke them into oblivion, but it's probably not the right path.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
It is a worrying time when you have trump basically publicly saying
'make another threat and it's nuclear war'. Build a wall. Drain the swampetc etcEdited for context.
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@Catogrande agreed, but the reaction of the audience is a little more difficult to judge, and the potential consequences a bit more serious.
North Korea