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@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
So after a religious nutjob Senator was disqualified, a Greens Senator and deputy leader posted the following on Twitter:
Ironically, it turns out he never rescinded his New Zealand citizenship so he has had to resign.
A week later, another Greens Senator decided to check her status (having been born in Canada) and found she too was ineligible as she was still a Canadian citizen.
Check her status? She had to check whether she had dual citizenship? Bullocks, she knew the whole time and realised she was about to get outed so front-footed it. You don't not know if you have dual citizenship. Two passports is a bit of a giveaway. I've had a pretty clear idea of my own British and NZ citizenship since I was about 4.
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@No-Quarter said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
So after a religious nutjob Senator was disqualified, a Greens Senator and deputy leader posted the following on Twitter:
Ironically, it turns out he never rescinded his New Zealand citizenship so he has had to resign.
A week later, another Greens Senator decided to check her status (having been born in Canada) and found she too was ineligible as she was still a Canadian citizen.
Check her status? She had to check whether she had dual citizenship? Bullocks, she knew the whole time and realised she was about to get outed so front-footed it. You don't not know if you have dual citizenship. Two passports is a bit of a giveaway. I've had a pretty clear idea of my own British and NZ citizenship since I was about 4.
Exactly. I actually think this is a stupid rule, but it is a very clear and (obviously) strictly enforced rule that you can't hold office if you are a duel citizen. At the very least they should have had it checked out. Now I hope Ludlam pays compensation for defrauding the taxpayer for 9 years. Knobhead.
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The fact Larissa Waters tried to turn it on her parents makes her look even more silly. You fill out a form if you want to run for Federal Parliament and it straight asks you. States that under the Constitution dual citizens are not eligible. Oversight I don't think so.
Both Ludlam and Waters have had this raised to them in previous years, but didn't want to front then. Now they've had to fall on their swords. A certain NSW Greens senator is probably laughing in her kale soup about it all....
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@No-Quarter said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
So after a religious nutjob Senator was disqualified, a Greens Senator and deputy leader posted the following on Twitter:
Ironically, it turns out he never rescinded his New Zealand citizenship so he has had to resign.
A week later, another Greens Senator decided to check her status (having been born in Canada) and found she too was ineligible as she was still a Canadian citizen.
Check her status? She had to check whether she had dual citizenship? Bullocks, she knew the whole time and realised she was about to get outed so front-footed it. You don't not know if you have dual citizenship. Two passports is a bit of a giveaway. I've had a pretty clear idea of my own British and NZ citizenship since I was about 4.
Exactly. I actually think this is a stupid rule, but it is a very clear and (obviously) strictly enforced rule that you can't hold office if you are a duel citizen. At the very least they should have had it checked out. Now I hope Ludlam pays compensation for defrauding the taxpayer for 9 years. Knobhead.
I don't know the specifics here but it is a pretty dumb rule and quite obvious has the capability of tripping up people with no intention to defraud.
Its one of those rules where Aus is assuming that other countries have similar rules to their own.In many places citizenship is conferred automatically on birth without anything formal being done. In Aus this isn't the case.
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@No-Quarter said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
So after a religious nutjob Senator was disqualified, a Greens Senator and deputy leader posted the following on Twitter:
Ironically, it turns out he never rescinded his New Zealand citizenship so he has had to resign.
A week later, another Greens Senator decided to check her status (having been born in Canada) and found she too was ineligible as she was still a Canadian citizen.
Check her status? She had to check whether she had dual citizenship? Bullocks, she knew the whole time and realised she was about to get outed so front-footed it. You don't not know if you have dual citizenship. Two passports is a bit of a giveaway. I've had a pretty clear idea of my own British and NZ citizenship since I was about 4.
You don't need a passport to be a citizen. You could easily assume the reverse eg born in NZ while your Australian parents were on holiday, grew up all your life as an Australian citizen and had no idea that despite neither yourself or your parents applying for anything in NZ you are an automatic citizen there as well.
NZ is fairly unique in that pre 2006 ANYONE born here was automatically a citizen.
They can easily fix this though by the multiple citizenship status in NZ being removed for them due to acting "in a manner that is contrary to the interests of New Zealand". -
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial It's unbelievably simple: You know you were born overseas. You know the Consitution doesn't permit dual citizenship so you check.
True, but the proof that people don't necessarily do that is obvious.
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@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
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@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
NZ is fairly unique in that pre 2006 ANYONE born here was automatically a citizen.
It's unique now - but for the current cohort of politicians it was the norm. Australia did away with it in 1986, Canada in 1977 (10 days after Waters was born) many other Commonwealth countries throughout the 90s with NZ and Ireland being some of the last to add a variant of 'one parent must be a PR/Citizen'
Really tells you all you need to know about The Greens - always happy to snipe from the sidelines, knock, and criticize - but when charged with a modicum of responsibility fall at the first hurdle.
This should be relaxed somewhat to allow citizens sharing the Queen as a head of state to retain dual citizenship.
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
The way that Section 44 is worded you could argue that no Australian citizen is eligible because they are all "entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power" eg Australians in NZ are entitled to Student Loans. That cannot even be argued to be a mutually agreed privilege. We just hand it out with nothing in return.
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@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
This was challenged by the first One Nation senator back in 1998 and failed at the High Court - setting the precedent that the UK is a 'foreign power' relative to Australia.
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@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Aussie Politics:
@No-Quarter said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
So after a religious nutjob Senator was disqualified, a Greens Senator and deputy leader posted the following on Twitter:
Ironically, it turns out he never rescinded his New Zealand citizenship so he has had to resign.
A week later, another Greens Senator decided to check her status (having been born in Canada) and found she too was ineligible as she was still a Canadian citizen.
Check her status? She had to check whether she had dual citizenship? Bullocks, she knew the whole time and realised she was about to get outed so front-footed it. You don't not know if you have dual citizenship. Two passports is a bit of a giveaway. I've had a pretty clear idea of my own British and NZ citizenship since I was about 4.
Exactly. I actually think this is a stupid rule, but it is a very clear and (obviously) strictly enforced rule that you can't hold office if you are a duel citizen. At the very least they should have had it checked out. Now I hope Ludlam pays compensation for defrauding the taxpayer for 9 years. Knobhead.
I don't know the specifics here but it is a pretty dumb rule and quite obvious has the capability of tripping up people with no intention to defraud.
Its one of those rules where Aus is assuming that other countries have similar rules to their own.In many places citizenship is conferred automatically on birth without anything formal being done. In Aus this isn't the case.
If you were born in a country that allows duel citizenship, then you should of course check whether you are still a citizen of that country when your entire job depends on it. Ignorance is absolutely no excuse in this case.
As Rotated mentions below, this has been a much publicised issue before so these idiots have nobody to blame but themselves.
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@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
@antipodean said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial It's unbelievably simple: You know you were born overseas. You know the Consitution doesn't permit dual citizenship so you check.
True, but the proof that people don't necessarily do that is obvious.
People don't abide by other laws either. We don't accept that as an excuse.
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Included from inception, i.e. 1901
The Naturalisation Act 1903 introduced the conditions by which ‘aliens’ could be granted naturalisation by the Commonwealth and attain the rights and privileges of British subjects. This Act also precluded persons from Asia, Africa or the Pacific Islands from applying for naturalisation.
The Federal Government amended the Naturalisation Act 1903 during the War so that applicants for naturalisation would have to advertise their intent, renounce their own nationality and prove they could read and write in English. The Nationality Act 1920 introduced a definition of ‘natural born’ British subject and residence requirements for naturalisation.
@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
The problem with that argument is neither Ludlam, nor Waters were born during a period such an interpretation would have existed.
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@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
The way that Section 44 is worded you could argue that no Australian citizen is eligible because they are all "entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power" eg Australians in NZ are entitled to Student Loans. That cannot even be argued to be a mutually agreed privilege. We just hand it out with nothing in return.
Which used ot be the case in Australia for NZ citizens prior to the late 90s when they changed and NZ citizens were then treated like International students.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
@NTA said in Aussie Politics:
@Crucial said in Aussie Politics:
Was that section 44 in the constitution from 1920?
Because there was no Australian citizenship until 1949 and everyone was a 'British Subject' holding rights to citizenship in Britain. Some PMs were even born there.
Was a point that a lawyer was making this week: countries like Canada and NZ should be with a challenge due to shared Commonwealth and HoS
The way that Section 44 is worded you could argue that no Australian citizen is eligible because they are all "entitled to the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power" eg Australians in NZ are entitled to Student Loans. That cannot even be argued to be a mutually agreed privilege. We just hand it out with nothing in return.
Which used ot be the case in Australia for NZ citizens prior to the late 90s when they changed and NZ citizens were then treated like International students.
Yep. But read Section 44 and tell me that no one in the current Oz Govt does not hold privileges of a citizen of a foreign power.
All O am trying to get across is that it isn't as cut and dried as some posters are saying. Even the Oz electoral guidelines suggest a legal opinion for anyone with doubt.
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But it is cut and dry. The application that Waters, Ludlum and every other Senator and MP specifically asks the question.
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http://www.theshovel.com.au/2017/07/19/greens-senators-to-come-with-country-of-origin-labelling/
"The Greens – who have been strong supporters of country of origin labelling for years – will finally get their wish, with mandatory Country of Origin information identified in large print on all current and future senators."
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@ACT-Crusader said in Aussie Politics:
Which used ot be the case in Australia for NZ citizens prior to the late 90s when they changed and NZ citizens were then treated like International students.
NZers still received subsidised places and access to HECS in some situations after the Howard reforms.
NZers will receive no special treatment in the Australian university system as of Jan 1 next year. They will pay full freight, with current students grandfathered in.
Some work needs to be done to give NZers a clearer and more easy pathway to citizenship. I know at least a couple of people who have had an absolutely bewildering time trying to navigate through everything even though they have been contributing to the country for 10+ years.
It's a lottery too. I know two guys pretty similar situations (both in Aus 10+ years, uni degree, six figure earners, kids born in Australia, mid 30s etc), one it took a couple of years just to secure PR and now is slogging it out to get citizenship and the bill so far is over $5k. The other one got it in a fortnight for $300 the only difference being his family happened to take a one-week holiday to the Gold Coast when he was six months old - creating a loophole.
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Well, its just getting ridiculous now:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-25/matt-canavan-citizenship-crisis-resigns-from-cabinet/8742702
Resources Minister Matt Canavan has quit Cabinet after his mother told him he was an Italian citizen last week.
The conservative Queensland senator was the minister for resources and northern Australia and is considered a rising star of the National Party.
Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce will take over Senator Canavan's Cabinet responsibilities while his eligibility is determined by the High Court.
It comes just weeks after two Greens senators, Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam, resigned from Federal Parliament due to their own dual citizenship.
When Mr Ludlam resigned, claiming he had no idea he was a New Zealand citizen, the Prime Minister described it as a "remarkable oversight".
The constitution disqualifies potential candidates from election if they hold dual or plural citizenship.
Senator Canavan, who was elected in 2013, told reporters in Brisbane that he was not born in Italy and had never visited the country.
His mother, who has never visited Italy either and was born in Australia, registered herself and her son for overseas citizenship at the Italian consulate in Brisbane in 2006.
"According to the Italian Government, I am a citizen of Italy," Senator Canavan said.
Senator Canavan, a former chief of staff to Mr Joyce, said he did not sign the Italian citizenship papers himself.
"I had no knowledge that I had become an Italian citizen, nor had I requested to become an Italian citizen," he said.
"Following the resignation of [former] senators Ludlam and Waters last week, my mother raised with me the possibility that I was, in fact, an Italian citizen on Tuesday evening."
Who is Matt Canavan?
A young, conservative minister seen as a rising star of the National party and a close ally of Deputy Prime Minister Barnaby Joyce.
The 36-year-old Queensland senator was elected in 2013 and promoted to cabinet after the 2016 election.
He's been a tireless advocate for the proposed Adani coal mine.
He's a former executive at KPMG, an economist at the Productive Commission and a chief of staff to Mr Joyce.
Earlier this year he criticised Westpac bank's decision to refuse finance for mining projects in the Galilee basin, where the Adani mine would be based.
Senator Canavan has repeatedly called on states to end state bans on gas exploration and extraction, accusing them of undermining energy security.
NTA's note: he's also the silly prick who said this:
Aussie Politics