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@dogmeat said in British Politics:
@baronsilasgreenback For what it's worth - this from the Wiki page on Rees-Mogg which I checked out after reading about him on here as he had largely escaped my notice. His old man was a pompous twat so hardly surprising he's being accused of the same.
Surely his privileged upbringing, avowed distance from every day life experience of most Brit's renders him unacceptable as leader to a majority. Imagine a choice between Corbyn wanting to turn the clock back to the 1950's and this guy the 1850's
"In 2006, Rees-Mogg criticised efforts by Conservative leader David Cameron to increase the numbers of ethnic minorities on the party candidate list, stating, "Ninety-five per cent of this country is white. The list can't be totally different from the country at large."...
"In May 2013, he addressed the annual dinner held by Traditional Britain, a right-wing extremist group that calls for non-white Britons to be deported. Rees-Mogg had been informed as to the nature of the group by anti-fascist group Searchlight prior to is attendance. After the dinner, he informed the press that although he had been informed of the group's views, he had "never been a member or supporter" of them"
I agree with him on the first point, quotas are abhorrent and if you do quotas they should represent the demographics of the community.
That is very far from saying that the UK should be a white country. As for him speaking at a group that is considered unacceptable, it is part of his job. He speaks to all sorts of groups, he even spoke to ANTIFA. Dialog with all comers is apparently his thing, he says that alot.
I am not sure why taling to any group makes that person a supporter of them. Seems pretty dishonest approach to take, especially if he explicitly says he does not support them. -
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Thinking about this some more and it is utterly predictable that this person will be character assassinated. He is right winger who fights for populist right wing ideals, totally unacceptable to the left and those who are desperate to appease the left in some misguided attempt to appear 'fair minded'.. kinda ironic that believing a character assassination is considered fair minded.
Every single right wing populist has the most despicable accusations thrown at them.
This isnt a dig at @dogmeat , I am sure this was just an mildly interesting diversion for him and he was interested in looking into him a bit more and made a few flippant comments. It is more an observation of the discourse that seems to take over politics nowdays.
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I think Rees-Mogg has got a bunch of idiosyncrasies and circumstances that make him an easy target for the hard left.
He’s a toff who made a mint from finance, so the class warriors are obliged to despise him. He has the kind of personality that won’t let him avoid confronting opinions he doesn’t agree with just for the sake of a quiet life. He says himself he wants to debate but given that he’s almost certainly smarter than most of the people he meets I can’t imagine the kind of person who wears a balaclava to a protest is equipped to argue cogently against him. He’s a red (or blue?) rag to a bull for thick bullies.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
... and has personally declared objections to gay marriage and abortion (views he is perfectly entitled to do).
Of course he has. He’s a devout Catholic. A lot of what people see as bigotry is bound to be his Catholicism. I can respect a person for living their faith unapologetically and accepting the criticism it brings. I also respect the fact that he’s not a hypocrite. His constituents know what they’re getting and how he will vote and represent them, because he makes no secret of it. Is he wrong? Well speaking as an atheist, yeah, I think he is on a lot of things, but that’s just my opinion, and he has his. So long as he’s OK with agreeing to disagree then I’m OK with that too.
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Yesterday morning Amber Rudd was on GMB, aka the Piers Morgan show ..
She was quite impressive I thought. Level headed, well spoken and could hold her own against Morgan. Had an air of leadership about her as well, something which I think is May's biggest issue.
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@jc I think he handles himself well here. The nuance of his opinion would be hard for the average voter to understand though, again they try to somehow conflate abortion with same sex marriage. I hold a similar opinion to @No-Quarter on abortion, I was very pro-choice until I was challenged on exactly what I believe and now my opinion has changed somewhat and isn't so easily defined...maybe an abortion thread is in order
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Thinking about it more, maybe he could never be voted in..but if he replaced May in the immediate future, bargained in a strong Brexit and saw in a decent economic recovery all before the next election perhaps then he may change minds. One thing is for sure, May has to go..this upcoming Porn law is bonkers.
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I'm really not sure where I stand with Rees-Mogg. I always have a sneaky admiration for people that are conviction politicians, whether I agree with their political stance or not. Tony Benn for example would fall into this category. Rees-Mogg has his moral stance and he has his political views and seems unlikely to change either for mere political expediency and to me that is a good trait.
Against that there is the seeming current problem of our times in that there is certainly a perception of more extreme views being populist and that the drum for the hard left or the hard right gets banged louder in response to those more populist views. The perception of Rees-Mogg is definitely that of being a throwback to times where the more privileged were even further empowered. To many he is seen as an antidote to the looniness of Corbyn in some ways. But does this make him electable as a PM or even does it make him desirable as a PM? I'm not so sure.
Yet, as @Baron-Silas-Greenback mentioned, the man is being assassinated left, right and centre by the left leaning media, here's just one example from a mainstream newspaper.
It really is just a smear article and you have to wonder why so many are going to such extremes to attack this man's character. Is he really that likely to become PM? After all this sort of thing has being going on for some time, much longer than he has been touted as a potential successor to May. I feel it is more likely that he is seen both as an easy target (posh, privileged, opinionated, old fashioned) and also that he is really and actually hated by these people purely on their outdated political ideals.
I guess I fall into the stance of who would I prefer as PM? Rees-Mogg or Corbyn? With the reality actually being who would I like least. With little sense of strong leadership from near to centre in the UK it could well come down to this.
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@jc said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
... and has personally declared objections to gay marriage and abortion (views he is perfectly entitled to do).
Of course he has. He’s a devout Catholic. A lot of what people see as bigotry is bound to be his Catholicism. I can respect a person for living their faith unapologetically and accepting the criticism it brings. I also respect the fact that he’s not a hypocrite. His constituents know what they’re getting and how he will vote and represent them, because he makes no secret of it. Is he wrong? Well speaking as an atheist, yeah, I think he is on a lot of things, but that’s just my opinion, and he has his. So long as he’s OK with agreeing to disagree then I’m OK with that too.
I think I already said he is entitled to those views.
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"Oh hello there ol' chap! What a frightful coincidence a camera crew filming live as I do a quick 'pop in' to number 10, why sure I'll do an entirely off-the-cuff interview. Of course I'm not interested in becoming PM..I'm just visiting..honestly. Anyway, must be off. Tally-ho!"
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@crucial said in British Politics:
@jc said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
... and has personally declared objections to gay marriage and abortion (views he is perfectly entitled to do).
Of course he has. He’s a devout Catholic. A lot of what people see as bigotry is bound to be his Catholicism. I can respect a person for living their faith unapologetically and accepting the criticism it brings. I also respect the fact that he’s not a hypocrite. His constituents know what they’re getting and how he will vote and represent them, because he makes no secret of it. Is he wrong? Well speaking as an atheist, yeah, I think he is on a lot of things, but that’s just my opinion, and he has his. So long as he’s OK with agreeing to disagree then I’m OK with that too.
I think I already said he is entitled to those views.
I know. I was agreeing with you.
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Not politics but this is probably the best place for this without starting another thread.
Newsflash: it snows in Britain! Who'd have thunk?
It's a 'Red Weather Warning!' a 'Beast from the East!', people are slipping over, there's white stuff on the ground. Close the schools, stop the public transport, nobody go to work.
FFS! Anyone would think this is a freak weather event in a normally tropical paradise.
How is it that a country that regularly has bad weather is not prepared for it?
Meanwhile everywhere else in Europe is popping on an extra layer and going about business as normal. I just came back from Austria where it was -15 in the middle of the city and barely an eyelid was being batted. Scrape away the snow, grit the hill roads and carry on.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
Not politics but this is probably the best place for this without starting another thread.
Newsflash: it snows in Britain! Who'd have thunk?
It's a 'Red Weather Warning!' a 'Beast from the East!', people are slipping over, there's white stuff on the ground. Close the schools, stop the public transport, nobody go to work.
FFS! Anyone would think this is a freak weather event in a normally tropical paradise.
How is it that a country that regularly has bad weather is not prepared for it?
Meanwhile everywhere else in Europe is popping on an extra layer and going about business as normal. I just came back from Austria where it was -15 in the middle of the city and barely an eyelid was being batted. Scrape away the snow, grit the hill roads and carry on.
Mate, we don't have enough money to mend the potholes in the roads let alone pay for snow-ploughs and gritters for something that might not happen during the life of a Government. Leave that shit for the unlucky next lot to deal with.
I had to go out yesterday just at the peak of the snow to pick up Ms Cato No1. Only a couple of miles or so, so no big deal. Except that the stupidity of the average British driver knows no limits. I left about ten car lengths between me and the car in front, kept in a low gear and did not over rev. The prick behind me was so close we were on intimate terms and he was revving and braking like it was his first drive with the result he was going sideways half the time. Got home without a dent though.
However with the office shut and most of the stores running out of essentials I will likely bolt the doors and spend my time considering the merits of a pinot noir v a claret and whether it is a scotch type of day or should it be cognac.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
Not politics but this is probably the best place for this without starting another thread.
Newsflash: it snows in Britain! Who'd have thunk?
It's a 'Red Weather Warning!' a 'Beast from the East!', people are slipping over, there's white stuff on the ground. Close the schools, stop the public transport, nobody go to work.
FFS! Anyone would think this is a freak weather event in a normally tropical paradise.
How is it that a country that regularly has bad weather is not prepared for it?
Meanwhile everywhere else in Europe is popping on an extra layer and going about business as normal. I just came back from Austria where it was -15 in the middle of the city and barely an eyelid was being batted. Scrape away the snow, grit the hill roads and carry on.
Yep - every... goddamn... year. Half an inch of snow falls, and trains are stopped, airports closed, etc, etc.
And like you say, elsewhere in Europe - with 2 or 3 feet of snow on the ground... people are driving to the airport, getting on planes - not even considering the possibility that there's an issue.
Still - the media are getting more imaginative with the names, I guess. The term "Weatherbomb" lost favour pretty quickly. -
We had a delayed flight coming back and the way the reports were coming in you’d think there was blizzard and impassable roads. Pissed ourselves laughing as we landed and saw a light dusting.
The news reports are virtually declaring a national emergency because a plane had to be de-iced.
Made for a quick drive back from the airport though as the roads were empty. The few brave souls driving around our local streets are doing 10 mph max. -
@crucial said in British Politics:
Not politics but this is probably the best place for this without starting another thread.
Newsflash: it snows in Britain! Who'd have thunk?
It's a 'Red Weather Warning!' a 'Beast from the East!', people are slipping over, there's white stuff on the ground. Close the schools, stop the public transport, nobody go to work.
FFS! Anyone would think this is a freak weather event in a normally tropical paradise.
How is it that a country that regularly has bad weather is not prepared for it?
Meanwhile everywhere else in Europe is popping on an extra layer and going about business as normal. I just came back from Austria where it was -15 in the middle of the city and barely an eyelid was being batted. Scrape away the snow, grit the hill roads and carry on.
To be fair, the rest of Europe has snow contingency plans as it effects them 4 months a year ... Britain only gets 4 days s year so the expenditure cannot be justified.
I quite enjoy it. Makes things interesting. Especially taking out my rear wheel drive hot hatch ... (too scared for caterham)
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@majorrage Yeah - that's a good way of looking at it.
Breaks up the monotony, and I've had a few days of work with the most annoying people staying at home.
Good point about 4 months vs 4 days - but it's not just whether the infrastructure is there... it's almost as if it's a surprise, every time.
Anyway - going to remember the positives (loud caarnts not in the office), enjoy the "novelty", and remember this is an excuse to sit at home, or in pub, drinking red wine.
British Politics