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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
No! That is where you are simply flat out wrong.
You weren't criticized by anybody, least of all me, for critiquing the absurd nature of what is being tried here. Where I and others have jumped in is your insistence that this is doing nothing / a waste of time after Crucial explained what it was about, and subsequently provided some outside thoughts on it.
If this was all the Met was doing to reduce knife crime - hell, you are 100% correct. But it's not. It's not even part of what they are doing.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used.
Is it?
Looks far more like taking a part of a strategy and critiquing it in isolation, with no context. -
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
What does ffs provide to an argument or opinion?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
Is it going to cause any?
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@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
No! That is where you are simply flat out wrong.
You weren't criticized by anybody, least of all me, for critiquing the absurd nature of what is being tried here. Where I and others have jumped in is your insistence that this is doing nothing / a waste of time after Crucial explained what it was about, and subsequently provided some outside thoughts on it.
If this was all the Met was doing to reduce knife crime - hell, you are 100% correct. But it's not. It's not even part of what they are doing.
Look I don't know how hard this is to understand. I am aware of the backstory and aware of the beautiful and awesome intent behind them. E for effort. But they are still ridiculous and a waste of time and resources that could have been used on other more effective methods, i. e. ones that don't involve Sesame Street characters.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
What is certain is that the bins will have no effect on people that choose not to be educated or informed.
Looks like there is a similar effect around discussing their effectiveness.
For christ sake. You can bang on all day about the origin and intent behind them. You can get a university degree majoring in Cookie Monster knife amnesty bins. But they are and will remain a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources that could have been used otherwise.
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@booboo said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
I just don't care if it is ridiculous or not. It isn't official, doesn't use any of my resources and is someone trying to do something.
My initial reaction was to laugh at it as well but I took a minute to check the backstory and thought 'who cares'.
If the bins are collecting knives then someone is making a conscious decision to put them in there which means they are thinking about what they are doing. Fine by me.Do you think it will prevent one single knife attack?
Is it going to cause any?
Can you prove it won't? Therefore I say it will.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@majorrage said in British Politics:
I can 't find the youtube, but your response to Crucial's comments seems to suggest you should follow another of Homer Simpsons quotes ..
"Never Try"
Fark it, I'm not going to let that slide. This isn't about not trying or doing one's utmost to stop or prevent something. This is not about never even trying ffs. It is about critiquing one of the methods used. According to some here this particular method is above criticism regardless of how absurd it clearly is. It's a bin with Cookie Monster on it ffs. To stop knife crime. It might have all the best intentions in the world but it's still farking stupid.
No! That is where you are simply flat out wrong.
You weren't criticized by anybody, least of all me, for critiquing the absurd nature of what is being tried here. Where I and others have jumped in is your insistence that this is doing nothing / a waste of time after Crucial explained what it was about, and subsequently provided some outside thoughts on it.
If this was all the Met was doing to reduce knife crime - hell, you are 100% correct. But it's not. It's not even part of what they are doing.
Look I don't know how hard this is to understand. I am aware of the backstory and aware of the beautiful and awesome intent behind them. E for effort. But they are still ridiculous and a waste of time and resources that could have been used on other more effective methods, i. e. ones that don't involve Sesame Street characters.
I've been leaning towards your point of view that it's a waste of time, but I wonder if there is a reason they used the muppet that is going over our heads? Like when I see a meme and go wonder what the hell is going on and have to look it up.
So I would temper the reaction with that.
I was pleased it was nothing official, because that would be a piss weak official response. They need more police, and to spend less time cracking down on free speech and more on solving crime. Rape and murder would be a good start.
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If anyone thinks the the govt doesnt fund that cookie monster box, I have a bridge to sell you.
It will be costing the taxpayer thousands of pounds per butter knife dropped in the box -
I want to read that they sold cookies to crowd fund it.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
What is certain is that the bins will have no effect on people that choose not to be educated or informed.
Looks like there is a similar effect around discussing their effectiveness.
For christ sake. You can bang on all day about the origin and intent behind them. You can get a university degree majoring in Cookie Monster knife amnesty bins. But they are and will remain a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources that could have been used otherwise.
Try this angle. Explain your reasons why they are a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources instead of continually stating so.
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@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
What is certain is that the bins will have no effect on people that choose not to be educated or informed.
Looks like there is a similar effect around discussing their effectiveness.
For christ sake. You can bang on all day about the origin and intent behind them. You can get a university degree majoring in Cookie Monster knife amnesty bins. But they are and will remain a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources that could have been used otherwise.
Try this angle. Explain your reasons why they are a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources instead of continually stating so.
Are you serious? I don't know. Maybe the entire concept. But the intent is great and that's all that matters right?
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@baron-silas-greenback said in British Politics:
If anyone thinks the the govt doesnt fund that cookie monster box, I have a bridge to sell you.
It will be costing the taxpayer thousands of pounds per butter knife dropped in the boxI think you may be correct, those tax deductions on donations when the money could be spent on beer and fags instead divided by a couple of butter knives found among the sharps would quite possibly equal thousands.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
What is certain is that the bins will have no effect on people that choose not to be educated or informed.
Looks like there is a similar effect around discussing their effectiveness.
For christ sake. You can bang on all day about the origin and intent behind them. You can get a university degree majoring in Cookie Monster knife amnesty bins. But they are and will remain a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources that could have been used otherwise.
Try this angle. Explain your reasons why they are a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources instead of continually stating so.
Are you serious? I don't know. Maybe the entire concept. But the intent is great and that's all that matters right?
Which concept? The educational talks alongside a disposal facility for use during amnestys that is supported by by local police because of its effectiveness?
I'm sure they'll scrap the whole idea now you have pointed out that is ridiculous because...ummm...you think so. -
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in British Politics:
@crucial said in British Politics:
What is certain is that the bins will have no effect on people that choose not to be educated or informed.
Looks like there is a similar effect around discussing their effectiveness.
For christ sake. You can bang on all day about the origin and intent behind them. You can get a university degree majoring in Cookie Monster knife amnesty bins. But they are and will remain a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources that could have been used otherwise.
Try this angle. Explain your reasons why they are a ridiculous waste of time, money and resources instead of continually stating so.
Are you serious? I don't know. Maybe the entire concept. But the intent is great and that's all that matters right?
Which concept? The educational talks alongside a disposal facility for use during amnestys that is supported by by local police because of its effectiveness?
I'm sure they'll scrap the whole idea now you have pointed out that is ridiculous because...ummm...you think so.Gee Crucial I wish you were as passionate about defending free speech as you are about defending cookie monster bins.
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Just catching up on this thread. My opinion is like Kirwins, their focus is so wrong it is contemptible.
I keep getting flashbacks of my psych degree, workshops where we looked at issues in society and come up with grand plans mostly involving 'education' & 'commitees' and to resolve these issues. We were all so pumped up on our own self-righteousness without any concept on how the real world worked that we didn't even consider that sitting around our camp fire singing Koombaya might have been an absolute gargantuan waste of time. This cookie monster bin and level of PCness reeks to me of these workshops.
No doubt there has to be a multi-faceted approach to dealing with the issue, simply banning all knives is not a resolution sadly and does more to make it easier to criminalise law abiding citizens. Because they have taken their eye off the ball for so long the issue has increased exponentially 'so and so stabbed my mate, now I have to stab him, and then his mate will have to stab me' etc.
So away from my campfire and in the safety of behind my PC in a foreign land I'll posit my solution, isn't pretty and it does involve a level of authoritarianism which sucks and I'm sure would be labelled as racist, when the reality its probably more 'classist' but if the problems are with a certain group there is no point pretending they are not. They need police on the ground working with youth groups determining the areas most likely to have gangs of youths with knifes intending to stab. Punish the living fuck outta those found with knives or committing similar offences so it is understood under no uncertain terms what future consequences will be. Make these intentions incredibly clear too with community groups, especially parents and advise the 'why' of it, use emotion of the youth deaths if you have to but quickly back that up with the success rate of the plan. Look toward Giuliani's 'get-tough' policies in the 90's which helped lead to New York's continued reduction in crime including violent crime.
Of course in our current political climate this will be difficult without local communist/feminist/BLM/rabid-Labourites creating demonstrations and inciting riots at a perceived discrimination. You'll just need a strong leader..ideally someone high on the 'victimhood' heirarchy (your time to shine Sadiq!) to ignore these masses until results are undeniable. This also shouldn't be a permanent measure just long enough to break the current crime explosion. Once broken you can then look for incremental improvement through the more airy-fairy methods, out-reach, increased youth employment initiatives etc.
And through this the cookie monster's name remains untarnished. (I wonder if there might be a Sesame Street lawsuit over his likeness?)
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@rembrandt said in British Politics:
Look toward Giuliani's 'get-tough' policies in the 90's which helped lead to New York's continued reduction in crime including violent crime.
Actually it was Bratton's policy (Chief of Police) and crime rates were already declining when they came to power. Giuliani was massively assisted by an improving economy, increasing employment opportunities and gentrification.
British Politics