Censorship and the Mosque Shooting
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@canefan "certainly"?
I didn't know it was a universally accepted notion that standing next to a complete stranger wearing writing on his shirt are sufficient grounds for a complete character assessment. Or any assessment actually.
There's a lot of casual compliance and acceptance to these lefty identity ideas, an apathy that surprises me.
We're veering a long way from any solid truth as a foundation for human interaction. There'll be a big punch up, maybe soon
Standing next to a complete stranger? Not putting your arm around, then smiling and posing for the camera?
JP has left himself wide open for criticism here, and has acknowledged it. He's a public figure and should think about what he chooses to and not to associate himself with. Which he has done.
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@canefan "certainly"?
I didn't know it was a universally accepted notion that standing next to a complete stranger wearing writing on his shirt are sufficient grounds for a complete character assessment. Or any assessment actually.
There's a lot of casual compliance and acceptance to these lefty identity ideas, an apathy that surprises me.
We're veering a long way from any solid truth as a foundation for human interaction. There'll be a big punch up, maybe soon
In Kirwan's post he basically admits he could have been a bit smarter. The optics detract from the good in his message, which is not good if you make your living as a communicator
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For what it's worth I hate the word Islamophobe. It conflates criticism of Islam with anti-Muslim bigotry. If we really want to call out genuine bigotry then we should use the correct terms.
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@No-Quarter said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
topics that are now off limits:
1080
allegations of criminality or misconduct
animal cruelty
beneficiaries
Christchurch mosque shootings of March 2019
court cases
domestic violence
fluoride
funerals
immigrants or refugees
Israel and Palestine
Kashmir
missing people
race
sexual orientation
suicide
Treaty of Waitangi
transgender issues
vaccination
vulnerable childrenFun game. Next dinner party I will print these off and cut them into individual topics and placed them in a bowl. After the third bottle of wine is opened each guest will take turns drawing one at random to set the conversation for the next 10 minutes.
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@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Keiran doesn't make his living questioning traditional belief systems and criticising political correctness among other things. Based on your previous posts I believe you are smart enough to realise the guy already put himself on the radar with SJW and hard liberal types, and that people aren't deep enough not to take someone at face value based on some photo where he smiled with a guy wearing an objectionable t-shirt. The world is not a fair or equitable place
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@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
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@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
I kind of alluded to it with my post against the word Islamophobe. The t-shirt is critical of the fundamental aspects of Islam and is taking a dig at the word being used to shut down criticism of the idea. I believe the word was coined by some pretty fundamental Muslims and was put into hate speech laws in the UK, and since been used widely. Maajid Nawaz has been campaigning against the use of the word:
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@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
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@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
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@canefan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Siam said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage ok so if I get a team of people to find an online aftermatch photo of an All Black next to a fan with an "inflammatory " tee shirt, he's culpable too? He should be stood down from the RWC perhaps?
Seeing that the "optics" are so compelling, what if I photoshop Keiran Read next to such a shirt?
I mean, surely the naivety argument holds true universally?
Are you honestly thinking JP hasn’t screwed up here at all? Even though he more or less admitted he did?
Not sure he did re-reading it. He explains why he took the photo, believing in free speech. The reasons for no longer taking similar photos is to stop people taking it out of context to attack him, that's more of a comment on the ethics of those people.
Agree on the latter point.
I don’t buy the naivety myself. I think he knew exactly what he was doing and has since regretted it. I can also get thst out of his statement.
We're not talking about any old guy here. The guy is a university professor and public figure. He knew exactly what he was doing and miscalculated about the outcome
Nah, this feels like projection to me. He takes thousands of these types of photos. You are assuming he even read the t-shirt, he may (as he said) just not even think about restricting what people can wear when they take photos of him.
His naivety comes from thinking that people support free speech anymore.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
He has in the past. He points out that Identity Politics types end up eating themselves, how can you be pro gay rights (or pro woman) and be pro Islam? When you see people only by their group membership, then eventually everyone is an oppressor.
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@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
It also criticises racism, female genital mutilation, rape, pedo stuff and their hatred of bacon
Controversial yes. A bit like criticising all of Catholicism for pervert priests. The story has been misrepresented by omission
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@Kirwan said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@MajorRage said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
@Duluth said in Censorship and the Mosque Shooting:
Has anyone mentioned the small print?
It was criticising Islam for its bigotry towards gays and subjugation of woman. Positions that would be 'woke' if you were talking about certain sects of Christianity.
Interesting that JP himself hasn’t mentioned that.
He has in the past. He points out that Identity Politics types end up eating themselves, how can you be pro gay rights (or pro woman) and be pro Islam? When you see people only by their group membership, then eventually everyone is an oppressor.
Not in general, about this photo.