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@Stargazer said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Siam ??
Not everyone who disagrees with your values is a bigot .
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
And why should he have to exactly? Because of threats by powerful institutions? Welcome a dystopian future.
Anyone who genuinely offended by what he said needs psychological help. because if a tweet by some moronic rugby player tilts you.... you are a mental midget that Darwin needs to cull.You talk like a guy who thinks the world is a fair place. Thing is, it isn't. The powers that be, RA in this case, are setting the rules about how they want to be portrayed. It's hypocritical at least, and not fair. And they certainly aren't the only major organisation who behave this way. Any government who does business with Saudi Arabia for example
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@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
And why should he have to exactly? Because of threats by powerful institutions? Welcome a dystopian future.
Anyone who genuinely offended by what he said needs psychological help. because if a tweet by some moronic rugby player tilts you.... you are a mental midget that Darwin needs to cull.You talk like a guy who thinks the world is a fair place. Thing is, it isn't
No shit really?????
The world isnt fair? Amazing.
So when something is unfair.. you are supposed to just say that it is fair at the behest of large corporates? Because that is seemingly what you are doing.So you think it is not fair... but defend it anyway? Your position is totally muddled.
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@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
Refusing to answer would be quite damning I would think.
You would like to think they wouldn't set a trap like that. But if they did he wouldn't be the first public figure who asked that questions only be about his sport and not his personal life. Besides, I don't recall Folau being asked his opinion, he just offered it up on his own for public consumption. Funny thing is we know how he feels and he did not attract heat until he made those feeling public. For the second time. After being warned.
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
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@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
Refusing to answer would be quite damning I would think.
You would like to think they wouldn't set a trap like that. But if they did he wouldn't be the first public figure who asked that questions only be about his sport and not his personal life. Besides, I don't recall Folau being asked his opinion, he just offered it up on his own for public consumption. Funny thing is we know how he feels and he did not attract heat until he made those feeling public. For the second time. After being warned.
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
It sounds familiar. Officially they questioned his commitment, they didn't say they fired him for his views?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
So how is excluding christian beliefs and the ability to express those believes inclusive? This action is the very opposite of inclusive. And wasnt Falous post all about having a squeaky clean life? Or was it not the right type of squeaky clean life? Are QANTAS and ARU now the arbiters of what a squeaky clean life is?
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
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@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
I don’t know about Ali but he certainly wouldn’t be the first NZ sportsman to be punished for his religious views.
Chris Cairns was sent home from the 1996 tour of the West Indies for his belief in God. More specifically that he was God.
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
The consequences are yet to be known. ARU could well be in breach and Folau could get the remainder of his three year (?) contract and be free to explore other opportunities.
There is so much disinformation out there about what his contract stated and what employers can/cannot mandate that I will let this run it’s course before making a call either way.
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@rotated said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
I don’t know about Ali but he certainly wouldn’t be the first NZ sportsman to be punished for his religious views.
Chris Cairns was sent home from the 1996 tour of the West Indies for his belief in God. More specifically that he was God.
That’s New Zealand’s greatest All Rounder you’re taking the piss out of. You show some respect.
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@Siam Nope. What I meant was that posting bigoted views (such as Folau's) on social media goes against the terms of their employment with the ARU and can get them fired (unless and until the legal outcome of the Folau case says otherwise). Assuming they want to keep their contract with the ARU, from which they earn a generous income that helps them support their family or lifestyle, players who are smart enough (that's what I meant with "have the brains") will respect the terms of their employment and not post such views on social media.
Obviously, if they find posting those views on social media more important than keeping their job, there's nothing to stop them (until it becomes hate speech in a legal sense).
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
I’ve been wondering if someone might step up and say something like this . Good on him .
Yep, it's wider than you think. The hearing will be very interesting -- RA may find that early grandstanding comes back to bite them in the arse, both legally and with players.
Oh fuck I hope so !!!
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@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
Absolutely.
Like it or not we live in an age where saying the wrong thing via social media can mean losing your job and it’s the case in any number of professions and industries. Why can’t people understand that?
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I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
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@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@Virgil said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@canefan said in The Folau Factor:
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Maybe he would keep his personal feelings to himself?
Refusing to answer would be quite damning I would think.
You would like to think they wouldn't set a trap like that. But if they did he wouldn't be the first public figure who asked that questions only be about his sport and not his personal life. Besides, I don't recall Folau being asked his opinion, he just offered it up on his own for public consumption. Funny thing is we know how he feels and he did not attract heat until he made those feeling public. For the second time. After being warned.
Isn’t that what lead to the leaving of Ali Lauititi from the Warriors? He was asked to name his main priorities and he had his beliefs/religion ahead of the club
It sounds familiar. Officially they questioned his commitment, they didn't say they fired him for his views?
Pretty sure that’s what happened though I doubt it was official
Made sense of course, given he was the best 2nd rower in the game and one of the most gifted league players in the NRl
Let’s give him the flick because he put god above an average league club -
@jegga said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
I’m waiting for someone to actually ask SBW his feelings about LGBTQ people and what Allah has in store for them in the afterlife . If it ever happens the NZRU response will be interesting
Yes, and, ermm, absolutely no!
I’d be terrified for a couple reasons:
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He says what the Quran does, and all hell breaks loose, he could lose his contract; or....
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He says the politically-correct tolerant, diverse & inclusive woke-progressive answer, and a fatwa immediately goes on his head Salman Rushdie-style, because the Quran says if a Muslim goes against the will of Mohmammad, Allah’s perfect prophet, he his a heretic and has to die. That is a sin punishible by death.
So please, for Allah’s sake, do NOT ask Sonny Bill that question!!
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
So hypothetically, if an employer told someone to stop supporting unions publicly, would you be OK with them losing their job over it?
Absolutely.
Like it or not we live in an age where saying the wrong thing via social media can mean losing your job and it’s the case in any number of professions and industries. Why can’t people understand that?
Oh believe me we get it. That is exactly what we are pushing back against. Free speech is not just a law to keep governments in check, it's a value that underpins our (free) society. I'm not going to sit by and say "oh well that's just the consequences today" as radical lefties ensure completely disproportionate punishments are dished out to people that are not PC enough for their liking.
Also for the record, there was absolutely nothing in Folau's contract that forbid him to use social media like this. The only thing they have him on is an apparent breach of the code of conduct - the same code of conduct other players and notably their head coach breach on a weekly basis. The code of conduct also contradicts itself as it states discrimination based on religious views is also forbidden. It is not worth the paper it is written on.
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@Salacious-Crumb said in The Folau Factor:
I can’t believe Samu Kerevi felt compelled to apologize for saying he loved Jesus, during Easter ffs. This is mind-manipulation bullying straight out of George Orwell.
Yeah that's pretty bloody disturbing.
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@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@MN5 said in The Folau Factor:
@nzzp said in The Folau Factor:
@No-Quarter said in The Folau Factor:
It's something my wife said immediately - that RA had ostracised a large portion of the PI community with their intolerance of players expressing conservative Christian beliefs. Will be interesting to see if many more speak out.
ARU: We're such a diverse and inclusive organisation we're excluding you for your genuinely held beliefs.
Personally, I'm a bit surprised at the number of people here who are very comfortable with employers having such control over the religious expression of their employees. Folau's a muppet, and I totally disagree with him, but getting the sack over a tweet is pretty extreme.
Yeah, I don't think so. In this day and age keeping a squeaky clean image and portraying Rugby ( or any sport for that matter ) as all inclusive is pretty fucken important in terms of growing the game.
Not only that he was clearly warned for this sort of carry on last year.
I'm not surprised and I think it's the right decision.
So how is excluding christian beliefs and the ability to express those believes inclusive? This action is the very opposite of inclusive. And wasnt Falous post all about having a squeaky clean life? Or was it not the right type of squeaky clean life? Are QANTAS and ARU now the arbiters of what a squeaky clean life is?
I’ll put it much more simply then.
He was warned by his employers to tow the line after crossing it.
He didn’t. He’s faced the consequences. End of story.
It’s not the end of the story — at all.
I think Israel is being a silly boy here. I am an atheist and he tells me I’m going to Hell, a scary imaginary place I don’t believe in. But I respect his religious convictions, the same as I used to respect Iceman who would never play rugby on a Sunday. Misguided, certainly, but I respected them all the same. The fact is, whether we rugby fans like it or not, some of our fave players have higher priorities, and religion is one of them. When you are telling religious people to keep their mouths shut and know their role, that does not serve a society that promotes values of tolerance and diversity and inclusivity. What it does is expose them as massive frauds. This isn’t simply a labour matter. This is about the entire culture, and if you think Folau stepping over a line is the “end of the story,” you are sadly mistaken.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions