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@Paekakboyz said in The Folau Factor:
I think they are screwed. But with his devotion to god and being able to share his message I wonder if Foal-ow has thought much about the ripple effect for RA in terms of staff and financial impact. He says this isn't about money, but if his court action cripples RA that's a massive cost (literally) to all involved in the sport. I get that from his perspective that's a non issue as it's about expressing his beliefs. But far out this will impact a big number of folks as it works its way towards a messy conclusion.
Would be ironic if they were financially crippled when the main reason for them sanctioning Føøhöw is to avoid sponsors pulling their cash. What a shit show. I can't believe they had nothing in writing.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
@Paekakboyz said in The Folau Factor:
I think they are screwed. But with his devotion to god and being able to share his message I wonder if Foal-ow has thought much about the ripple effect for RA in terms of staff and financial impact. He says this isn't about money, but if his court action cripples RA that's a massive cost (literally) to all involved in the sport. I get that from his perspective that's a non issue as it's about expressing his beliefs. But far out this will impact a big number of folks as it works its way towards a messy conclusion.
Fair point... but maybe QANTAS and ARU could have had similar thoughts....
Seems a lot of the current orthadoxy is based more on emotion than rationalism. The sooner organisations realise that the cultish 8% of twitter users (and the media who amplify it) that drive online discourse are not actually representative of normal every-day folk the better.
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@Paekakboyz said in The Folau Factor:
I wonder if Foal-ow has thought much about the ripple effect for RA in terms of staff and financial impact.
Probably about as much as the ARU have thought about his personal welfare.
He says this isn't about money, but if his court action cripples RA that's a massive cost (literally) to all involved in the sport.
The ARU have said this is all about inclusivity; yet this event has done more to prevent athletes from sharing genuinely personal held beliefs outside of those deemed permissible by Alan Joyce and other sponsors.
If the ARU go down it will be because they failed to follow due process, and if that is the case they absolutely deserve it. Cripple them, bankrupt the union and let a new one rise from the ashes.
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If they are already financially crippled and their bank does not extend their overdraft then declaring insolvency will see them not having sufficient funds to pay out any court ordered payments so Folau will get nothing anyway after all secured creditors have been paid. Not sure what effect insolvency/bankruptcy will have on any contracts signed with the IRB re getting hold of any payments from them as recompence for taking part in the World Cup. Will they even be allowed to compete as they will not be representing the original organisation that signed any participation agreement. The new outfit will not have earned the right to partake by way of playing through the qualifying elimination process. It could be a case of Wallabies goooooooooone from the World Cup.
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@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Seems a lot of the current orthadoxy is based more on emotion than rationalism. The sooner organisations realise that the cultish 8% of twitter users (and the media who amplify it) that drive online discourse are not actually representative of normal every-day folk the better.
FWIW, most of the people I speak to in the Aussie rugby community are supportive of RA in this.
These aren't twitter people, they are blokes on the sidelines of rugby matches in suburban Sydney.
I'd actually guess in this case it's the pro-Folau crowd who have been overestimated in their size, due to a few mouthpieces in the Murdoch press and on talkback radio.
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@barbarian I have no doubt that's true about the rugby community. I also have no doubt that they are just normal folk who don't follow politics, want to live their lives in peace and enjoy the game they love. They are not part of the 8% but will be victims of them.
The orthodoxy I'm referring to is that of corporations who back AR. Corporations are influenced by twitter extremists and in turn put pressure on organisations they sponsor to follow the same orthodoxy without question. "Believe this as gospel or we take away your funding". Its this almost religious fanaticism which resulted in Cheika and others jumping the gun in trying to out-virtue each other publicly instead of following due process and contract law.
It didn't need to go down this way.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Seems a lot of the current orthadoxy is based more on emotion than rationalism. The sooner organisations realise that the cultish 8% of twitter users (and the media who amplify it) that drive online discourse are not actually representative of normal every-day folk the better.
FWIW, most of the people I speak to in the Aussie rugby community are supportive of RA in this.
These aren't twitter people, they are blokes on the sidelines of rugby matches in suburban Sydney.
I'd actually guess in this case it's the pro-Folau crowd who have been overestimated in their size, due to a few mouthpieces in the Murdoch press and on talkback radio.
Or they are guys just towing the accepted line. Do you really want to be the guy that takes Fellows side? He has acted like a farkwit, but that isnt mutually exclusive with ARU and QANTAS acting like farwits... or the threat of complete and utter tram;ling on freedom of speech
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Rembrandt said in The Folau Factor:
Seems a lot of the current orthadoxy is based more on emotion than rationalism. The sooner organisations realise that the cultish 8% of twitter users (and the media who amplify it) that drive online discourse are not actually representative of normal every-day folk the better.
FWIW, most of the people I speak to in the Aussie rugby community are supportive of RA in this.
These aren't twitter people, they are blokes on the sidelines of rugby matches in suburban Sydney.
I'd actually guess in this case it's the pro-Folau crowd who have been overestimated in their size, due to a few mouthpieces in the Murdoch press and on talkback radio.
I would agree with that, but you don't have to be pro-Phonehow or a bible basher to be a little uneasy about how this has been handled.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
Or they are guys just towing the accepted line. Do you really want to be the guy that takes Fellows side?
I don't think people are afraid to support Folau here (btw I reckon we can move on from the mis-spelling joke now), or more to the point people are certainly unafraid to beat up Rugby Australia about all manner of things.
My feeling is that RA has the broad support of the rugby community here in the way they have acted, and they don't have that on many issues these days.
Certainly there are people who disagree, but in his actions post-sanction Folau has erased the small amount of goodwill he had left I reckon.
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@Nevorian said in The Folau Factor:
Foohau is being a bit hypocritical if he is going to screw the ARU for his 4$mill isn't he? Supreme court action wouldn't happen overnight, more likely after the world cup ayway. Maybe they should have reinstated him but not selected him?
That certainly could have been one option they could have taken, but only if they hadn't immediately gone public.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
Or they are guys just towing the accepted line. Do you really want to be the guy that takes Fellows side?
I don't think people are afraid to support Folau here (btw I reckon we can move on from the mis-spelling joke now), or more to the point people are certainly unafraid to beat up Rugby Australia about all manner of things.
My feeling is that RA has the broad support of the rugby community here in the way they have acted, and they don't have that on many issues these days.
Certainly there are people who disagree, but in his actions post-sanction Folau has erased the small amount of goodwill he had left I reckon.
I think people are pleased that RA showed some balls when it was perceived that they caved to Fongchow last year. But I'm not sure that goodwill will last if it ends up bankrupting the sport. RA will try and spin it as them having been willing to risk everything to stand up to Fullplow's bigotry, but I don't think that will be sufficient to hide their idocy and complete incompetence.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
I think people are pleased that RA showed some balls when it was perceived that they caved to Fongchow last year. But I'm not sure that goodwill will last if it ends up bankrupting the sport. RA will try and spin it as them having been willing to risk everything to stand up to Fullplow's bigotry, but I don't think that will be sufficient to hide their idocy and complete incompetence.
There's something funny about mis-spelling the word 'idiocy' but let's put that to one side.
I'm not sure I agree with you. I think the public may actually rally behind RA, if Folau insists on dragging the them to the High Court. It shows no regard for the sport, the jersey, his team-mates and the fans.
Essentially he is draining the code's finances to fight a personal battle over religion. Why should regular fans be supporting that? RA might be seen to be doing all they could, against a litigious player who refused to compromise at every step.
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@barbarian if you think we can just move on from the mis-spelling joke then you are grossly underestimating the number of cringe-worthy Dads that post here.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in The Folau Factor:
Or they are guys just towing the accepted line. Do you really want to be the guy that takes Fellows side?
I don't think people are afraid to support Folau here (btw I reckon we can move on from the mis-spelling joke now), or more to the point people are certainly unafraid to beat up Rugby Australia about all manner of things.
My feeling is that RA has the broad support of the rugby community here in the way they have acted, and they don't have that on many issues these days.
Certainly there are people who disagree, but in his actions post-sanction Folau has erased the small amount of goodwill he had left I reckon.
Good luck with that, it’ll be years before people get sick of this. Some jokes having been going for 13 years here.
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@taniwharugby said in The Folau Factor:
Heads at the top of AR need to roll if they are just sticking to thier guns and sacking him on principle as opposed to what they are able to do legally.
Well they aren't sacking him 'on principle' as such. He has been judged by an independent panel to have breached the code of conduct.
If he does end up winning in court I'd imagine it may have ramifications for every sport, who to my eyes operate in a very similar manner to RA on these issues.
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@barbarian said in The Folau Factor:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
I think people are pleased that RA showed some balls when it was perceived that they caved to Fongchow last year. But I'm not sure that goodwill will last if it ends up bankrupting the sport. RA will try and spin it as them having been willing to risk everything to stand up to Fullplow's bigotry, but I don't think that will be sufficient to hide their idocy and complete incompetence.
There's something funny about mis-spelling the word 'idiocy' but let's put that to one side.
I'm not sure I agree with you. I think the public may actually rally behind RA, if Folau insists on dragging the them to the High Court. It shows no regard for the sport, the jersey, his team-mates and the fans.
Essentially he is draining the code's finances to fight a personal battle over religion. Why should regular fans be supporting that? RA might be seen to be doing all they could, against a litigious player who refused to compromise at every step.
Yes, because a misspelt word in a post typed on a phone is in the same league as a sporting organisation being so incompetent that it faces the prospect of financial ruin. Give yourself a pat on the back.
Why would fans rally behind RA? If they cared so much about this matter then why was Foongcha happily welcomed back into the fold last year? Irrespective of how morally repugnant his tweet may have been, it was RA who allowed this mess to happen and I don't think the majority of fans will be happy to see the game go down the gurgler over a bloody tweet.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in The Folau Factor:
Why would fans rally behind RA? If they cared so much about this matter then why was Foongcha happily welcomed back into the fold last year?
Because he apologised, said he wouldn't do it again. People took him at face value and assumed he'd learnt his lesson.
Not only has he done it again, he's doubled down. He's refused to compromise, he's blocking calls from the coach, he's not answering his door when RA staff come to his house.
A section of the public may still be angry at RA, but I think there would be plenty of fans who would think that RA has taken a logical course of action given Folau's behaviour throughout this process.
Sports requiring athletes to support cultural positions