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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
The first step in bringing Boris to book has been made. Not sure if this means much in itself, the appeal will likely be more interesting.
It's a complete red herring. English High Court ruled that a UK Government is perfectly entitled to prorogue for political reasons. END OF. The preeminent Supreme Court judge, who just retired, was equally unequivocal, and the Court itself will clearly confirm.
If Parliament wants to derive a principle out of this it ought to be let those MPs without sin cast the first stone.
Bring on the election, and let's pray there IS a winner.
I think calling it a Red Herring is being a bit too casual, you've had one set of judges saying one thing and another set of judges contradicting that. The definitive judgement is yet to come. I reckon they will find in favour of the Government but will cite some grave concerns, but... we'll see. Either way it is a blow to Boris, not a fatal one by any means, but a blow nonetheless.
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@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
The first step in bringing Boris to book has been made. Not sure if this means much in itself, the appeal will likely be more interesting.
That is a damning ruling.
Effectively says BJ lied to the Queen. In a different time he'd be in the Tower by nowBut you're quite right. The ruling will be appealed. Parliament won't get to sit again until the proroguing period has come to an end anyway. And Boris is pretty slippery. Not sure he will be harmed by all of this.
And if he is as popular as @MajorRage suggests, not sure it will harm him in any way at the polls either.And that last bit is where one should become very concerned. Across the pond, their is another orange-haired bloke who is so popular, he can lie and cheat and basically do what he wants without being held accountable. Not good signs for the UK if the rule-of-law becomes subservient to popularity. Ask me. I live in Africa.
You didn't actually read the article did you....
The equivalent court in England found in his favour. It is just a Scottish court. Ultimately the Supreme Court will decide. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
The first step in bringing Boris to book has been made. Not sure if this means much in itself, the appeal will likely be more interesting.
That is a damning ruling.
Effectively says BJ lied to the Queen. In a different time he'd be in the Tower by nowBut you're quite right. The ruling will be appealed. Parliament won't get to sit again until the proroguing period has come to an end anyway. And Boris is pretty slippery. Not sure he will be harmed by all of this.
And if he is as popular as @MajorRage suggests, not sure it will harm him in any way at the polls either.And that last bit is where one should become very concerned. Across the pond, their is another orange-haired bloke who is so popular, he can lie and cheat and basically do what he wants without being held accountable. Not good signs for the UK if the rule-of-law becomes subservient to popularity. Ask me. I live in Africa.
You didn't actually read the article did you....
The equivalent court in England found in his favour. It is just a Scottish court. Ultimately the Supreme Court will decide.Thanks for checking - and yes I did read it, and a fair few others regarding this. I am well aware of the English court ruling.
Last time I checked though, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom though - so their ruling holds no less weight than the English court, and it is damning.
If you had read my post more closely, you will have noted that I concur with the view that the ruling will be appealed. -
@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
The first step in bringing Boris to book has been made. Not sure if this means much in itself, the appeal will likely be more interesting.
That is a damning ruling.
Effectively says BJ lied to the Queen. In a different time he'd be in the Tower by nowBut you're quite right. The ruling will be appealed. Parliament won't get to sit again until the proroguing period has come to an end anyway. And Boris is pretty slippery. Not sure he will be harmed by all of this.
And if he is as popular as @MajorRage suggests, not sure it will harm him in any way at the polls either.And that last bit is where one should become very concerned. Across the pond, their is another orange-haired bloke who is so popular, he can lie and cheat and basically do what he wants without being held accountable. Not good signs for the UK if the rule-of-law becomes subservient to popularity. Ask me. I live in Africa.
You didn't actually read the article did you....
The equivalent court in England found in his favour. It is just a Scottish court. Ultimately the Supreme Court will decide.Thanks for checking - and yes I did read it, and a fair few others regarding this. I am well aware of the English court ruling.
Last time I checked though, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom though - so their ruling holds no less weight than the English court, and it is damning.
If you had read my post more closely, you will have noted that I concur with the view that the ruling will be appealed.I did read your post. And it seemed rather gleeful and rather lopsided. Thus ruling isn't damning of Johnson, that's just wishful thinking.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Brexit:
@Billy-Webb said in Brexit:
@Catogrande said in Brexit:
The first step in bringing Boris to book has been made. Not sure if this means much in itself, the appeal will likely be more interesting.
That is a damning ruling.
Effectively says BJ lied to the Queen. In a different time he'd be in the Tower by nowBut you're quite right. The ruling will be appealed. Parliament won't get to sit again until the proroguing period has come to an end anyway. And Boris is pretty slippery. Not sure he will be harmed by all of this.
And if he is as popular as @MajorRage suggests, not sure it will harm him in any way at the polls either.And that last bit is where one should become very concerned. Across the pond, their is another orange-haired bloke who is so popular, he can lie and cheat and basically do what he wants without being held accountable. Not good signs for the UK if the rule-of-law becomes subservient to popularity. Ask me. I live in Africa.
You didn't actually read the article did you....
The equivalent court in England found in his favour. It is just a Scottish court. Ultimately the Supreme Court will decide.Thanks for checking - and yes I did read it, and a fair few others regarding this. I am well aware of the English court ruling.
Last time I checked though, Scotland was still part of the United Kingdom though - so their ruling holds no less weight than the English court, and it is damning.
If you had read my post more closely, you will have noted that I concur with the view that the ruling will be appealed.I did read your post. And it seemed rather gleeful and rather lopsided. Thus ruling isn't damning of Johnson, that's just wishful thinking.
It is neither. And I don't share your opinion on the ruling. But cest la vie
Not really something I intend getting my knickers in a twist about. -
@Billy-Webb The problem is that Scottish court sought to rely on quirky Scottish Law point whereas High Court ruling absolutely unequivocal: prorogation for political purposes is unquestionably lawful per se. The Scottish reasoning won't get out of starting stalls with Supreme Court.
In meantime, it IS ammo for Labour mud slinging.
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@Billy-Webb The problem is that Scottish court sought to rely on quirky Scottish Law point whereas High Court ruling absolutely unequivocal: prorogation for political purposes is unquestionably lawful per se. The Scottish reasoning won't get out of starting stalls with Supreme Court.
In meantime, it IS ammo for Labour mud slinging.
Not quite. The English court ruling was that it was a political matter and not one for the courts. A bit mealy mouthed really. Sounds like the Supreme Court shenanigans is getting interesting. Could still go either way but you’d assume they will find in favour of the Government.
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The UK Daily Telegraph may have become a shit paper, but it still has the best cartoonist in the business..
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Supreme Court ruling just in:
PM's Advice to Queen Was Void, Unlawful.
Prorogation was void and of no effect.
Parliament has not been prorogued.Huge ruling. Much more damaging to govt than was expected. House of Commons likely to be reconvened immediately. Big blow to Boris. Opposition will call for his resignation. Brexit gets even messier.
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@TeWaio I think that whatever the ruling (and this one surprised me a little) it was going to be a messy outcome, but you're right this is a mighty big spanner in the works.
Is Johnson's position now untenable? He's been shown to be a liar many times before and now he stands as being accused of lying to the Queen. Where now for BoJo?
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This is catastrophic for BoJo but recoverable, in my view. He should release a statement along the lines of
“Ever get the feeling the establishment is trying to prevent me from leading the UK out of Europe, which you voted for”
This just keeps going next level every single day!
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@MajorRage said in Brexit:
This is catastrophic for BoJo but recoverable, in my view. He should release a statement along the lines of
“Ever get the feeling the establishment is trying to prevent me from leading the UK out of Europe, which you voted for”
I think you're right. It's very much the establishment vs the people. Win be interesting what his next move is.
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I'm not sure you're on the right track on this. The decision from the Supreme Court is about the prorogation of Parliament not Brexit. The Judges have been at pains to point this out all along. Allied to that is the fact that Boris has always stated that Prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit but was just the normal process. It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit. That would show him to be a, what's the word? Liar? His position has become very difficult. It all just adds to the mess. This really is the gift that keeps on giving.
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@Catogrande said in Brexit:
I'm not sure you're on the right track on this. The decision from the Supreme Court is about the prorogation of Parliament not Brexit. The Judges have been at pains to point this out all along. Allied to that is the fact that Boris has always stated that Prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit but was just the normal process. It will be mighty difficult for him to now state this is preventing him from delivering Brexit. That would show him to be a, what's the word? Liar? His position has become very difficult. It all just adds to the mess. This really is the gift that keeps on giving.
I know I'm not on the right track. But le's face it .. this can easily be spun as just another delay.
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@Catogrande @MajorRage I reckon you're both right. It simultaneously isn't about Brexit, but will be spun as part of the "people vs parliament" narrative that BoJo is betting he can win an electoral majority with. It might even work, despite the poor optics of this for the Tories.
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The issue is that we're in a total mess with Brexit, it really should have been put to bed ages ago but has just got worse and worse. I can see why Boris was trying to ride roughshod over Parliamentary procedure but it was a high risk game plan and has come unstuck. It might just help him force an election and if so he'd likely win a majority, but will he get the Parliamentary support to call an election? It suits many in his own party and certainly those in Labour to let him handle the almighty fuck up that we have and watch him fuck it up further. Not very statesman-like and for sure putting party before country but I wouldn't put anything past the current rabble we have leading us.
Brexit