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@booboo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@No-Quarter said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@canefan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Rembrandt said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Anyone know why the u-turn over terrorist charges? From memory they weren't going to go down that route as it could result in more of a shit show
They haven't said I don't think. I disagree with calling it terrorism. They should reduce it to what it was, some quack with a gun
There's a fair number of people that believe that if the perpetrator is brown it is terrorism, if white then it's not. So I think that may have played into the decision to charge terrorism.
I kind of agree with you though, it's not easy to discern the ideology he was following as he is just all over the place and appears to be more of a troll trying to start conflict than anything else. You could call him an ethno-nationalist I guess but then he praised black people in the States so...
Thought the highlighted text above qualified as terrorism.
Ethno-nationalist absolutely qualifies as terrorism.
What concerns me most about Tarrant is not that he is a white nationalist, but that he isn't. If he isn't (and I don' think he is) then ironic nihilist 'shitposting' internet culture has become a threat - essentially trolling has spilled over into actual violence.
People (well those that got to read it) look at his manifesto as either sincere or trolling. But it was actually kind of both - sincere AND trolling. That means the threshold of hate for committing heinous acts is lowered to just shitposting/trolling. There are some seriously disturbed people hanging out in the worlds of 8chan, the last thing we want is that spilling over into the real world.
None of what Jacinda has proposed even addresses what I'm talking about; to be honest I don't think there is anyone in parliament that even understands the sub-cultures that have grown in places like 4chan/8chan and what motivates people like Tarrant to do what he did.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Duluth said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents
Which itself is pretty incredible in a supposedly free society.
I was just going to ask whether it was ok to criticize or critique the reason for it being censored. Is it or is that a bit risky too?
It's incredible I even have to ask that.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Excellent post Siam. I'm not sure why there is this obsession with putting the lid on everything in this case.
The reply was made to me, so respectfully, where did I mention “putting a lid on everything in this case”?
The atrocity has already been committed. Is it out of respect to the victims? If that's the case then no info, pics etc of any murderer or criminal should be provided.
This was an act of political violence. It was not a garden variety assault, rape or murder. If it was, then it would not have been a huge international story.
We haven’t seen nor heard this guy yet, beyond his “manifesto.”
If you think white supremacist groups and grifters aren’t going to use carefully edited footage of Tarrant to promote their pathology and recruitment, I believe you are being naive. It will be a gift for them. They’ll frame him as a hero and martyr, with video as their proof. That’s my objection, and there’s nothing remotely obsessive about it. Careful with the strawmen arguments, please..
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@Salacious-Crumb said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Excellent post Siam. I'm not sure why there is this obsession with putting the lid on everything in this case.
The reply was made to me, so respectfully, where did I mention “putting a lid on everything in this case”?
The atrocity has already been committed. Is it out of respect to the victims? If that's the case then no info, pics etc of any murderer or criminal should be provided.
This was an act of political violence. It was not a garden variety assault, rape or murder. If it was, then it would not have been a huge international story.
We haven’t seen nor heard this guy yet, beyond his “manifesto.”
If you think white supremacist groups and grifters aren’t going to use carefully edited footage of Tarrant to promote their pathology and recruitment, I believe you are being naive. It will be a gift for them. They’ll frame him as a hero and martyr, with video as their proof. That’s my objection, and there’s nothing remotely obsessive about it. Careful with the strawmen arguments, please..
What on earth are you on about? My post had absolutely nothing to do with you. I didn't even read what you posted. It was a response to Siam and the current policies of the govt.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Duluth said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
Tarrant's document is still censored. So please don't discuss the contents
Which itself is pretty incredible in a supposedly free society.
Good thing we have a virtuous PM and anointed reporters who are allowed to report on what was in it so we don't have to worry our pretty heads over what might be in it and that we can only assume our leaders actions are the correct ones in response.
I see 21 months prison for that bloke who shared the video. He's a grade A racist fluffybunny without a doubt..but gotta love that precedent. I wonder what that 16 year old is going to get?
Accept the truth your government gives you or go to prison.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past"
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
He might the first to get life without parole.
We really need to question the system if he doesn't.
If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.
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@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
He might the first to get life without parole.
We really need to question the system if he doesn't.
If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.
Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.
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@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
He might the first to get life without parole.
We really need to question the system if he doesn't.
If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.
Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.
The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.
That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.
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@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
He might the first to get life without parole.
We really need to question the system if he doesn't.
If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.
Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.
The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.
That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.
Yep. Like you said, if this crime doesn't meet the threshold you'd have to wonder what would. Might as well strike it from the books if you can't use it here.
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@Kirwan said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Hooroo said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
@Godder said in Christchurch Gunman in Mosque:
He might the first to get life without parole.
We really need to question the system if he doesn't.
If he doesn't get it, nobody will. The main question for the court is whether he could ever be released on parole safely.
Some things we do in life don't deserve that question to be asked.
The rule of law requires it, but the ideology and actions suggest someone who can't safely be released ever, so the judge can justify it easily enough.
That also means he can't be deported, but that's worth it IMO.
Yep. Like you said, if this crime doesn't meet the threshold you'd have to wonder what would. Might as well strike it from the books if you can't use it here.
The only shadow of doubt is if he's finally listening to his lawyers and the guilty plea is aimed at avoiding life without parole and solitary confinement which is what he was staring down the barrel of.
Christchurch Gunman in Mosque