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@No-Quarter said in US Politics:
@NTA I also heard that for the most part the police don't get independent reviews following incidents like this, they just do an internal review and move on. So nothing ever changes.
Like it's any different here
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I have seen a video of a black woman pleading with 2 white female protesters to stop tagging a Starbucks with “blm”. The 2 women basically tell her to shut up.
The black woman tries to explain that all that will happen is blacks will be blamed for the vandalism.
I do not have a chip on my shoulder, as a minority in my own home country or in the one I currently live in. I’ve lived a life fairly free of racism directed at me. But I am absolutely siding with the US black community on this one. I’m sick of hearing from so many white Americans that fall back on “all live’s matter” in response to the BLM protests. Yes they all matter but thats not whats fucken going on here. You can absolutely fight for equality without downgrading non black live ffs. So hold your tongue Karen.
I’ve been following this since the shooting of the Armaud Arbery, who was simply out jogging, came to light publicly, months after it happened. The kid goes for a jog. Casually looks around a building site of a new house, without stealing anything (which a white couple also did the same week without issue) sets back out on his quarantine exercise and is then accosted by a father and son and quizzed about entering the building site. He takes issue and then they shoot and kill him. They were not charged with any crime until a film of the shooting was made public. 2 fucking months later.
And then this, George Floyd, a security guard accused of trying to pass a counterfeit $20 bill. Which allegedly has turned out to be not the counterfeit at all....but he endured 9min of a full grown mans weight via his knee on Floyd’s neck. And then, as it was revealed yesterday 2 other officers were also kneeling on him. 9 mins of torture. Pleading for help and that he could not breath. Bystanders pleading to let him up. Floyd loses consciousness and later died. For the record the official word from the police is that Floyd had preexisting poor health and is was a major contributor to his death. That officer has since been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter(odd to me that it be both but I don’t claim to understand criminal law). He was also a proud racist.
The day after this occurred, or at least after the story broke, an adventure capitalist, Tom Austin of Minnesota, accused 4 black men of trespassing in the corporate gym of his office building. He threatens to call the police and eventually call the building management after demanding the men prove they were tenants. That had been tenants with an office in the building for 18 months.
Christian Cooper, Harvard alumni, avid birdwatcher and black man was in a specific birdwatching area of Central Park NY when Amy Cooper(no relation) wandered into the area with her off leash dog. The area requires all dog be on a leash. Christian politely asks Amy to leash her dog. She becomes hysterical claims he is threatening her and then call 911 claiming Christian is “an African American Man“ threatening her and her dogs life(yes she mentioned the dog was threatened as well). Thankfully Christian caught the ridiculously over top Amy on film.
Both Amy and Tom eventually suffered for their racism. Amy was fried from her job and Tom was evicted from his building. But how many of these “Karen’s” are using their positions of privilege to victimise African Americans and aren’t caught or filmed?? I’m not dumb enough to lump all white Americans in as racist. And there are a fuck load of racist black Americans. But you can’t act like there isn’t a racism problem there in the US anymore.
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
The bit that confuses me in this Floyd situation is why the cop wasn't arrested 'on suspicion' while they assembled evidence and a case.
IIRC there have been a number of cases where officers have been fired or arrested, their lives wrecked and then all charges dropped once the evidence come in and/or the protests die down.
Then the lawsuits start.
Gotta be a better way.
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@Frank said in US Politics:
Good to see, but the source of funding might be harder to track down. they are decentralized, whereas KKK, Black Panthers had a known hierarchy.
Surely the good guys have all of this by now.
Because this rot needs to be cut at source, not just arrest a few of the foot soldiers.
What I believe (and hope) Trump and team have been doing is shinning a light on the rot in the US before they act. Including some of the vile and loony leaders in the Democratic party.
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@Winger said in US Politics:
What I believe (and hope) Trump and team have been doing is shinning a light on the rot in the US before they act. Including some of the vile and loony leaders in the Democratic party.
Oh yeah. The Democratic leadership needs to be bought to justice for this.
I look at the nationwide protests, the looting and chaos, the police brutality, the mindless violence and I think 'the opposition party has a LOT to answer for here'.
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@barbarian said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
What I believe (and hope) Trump and team have been doing is shinning a light on the rot in the US before they act. Including some of the vile and loony leaders in the Democratic party.
Oh yeah. The Democratic leadership needs to be bought to justice for this.
I look at the nationwide protests, the looting and chaos, the police brutality, the mindless violence and I think 'the opposition party has a LOT to answer for here'.
A distinction can be drawn about state leadership and Democrat and Republican states and their legislation and reponses. Just like in Australia and the differing responses to COVID, are independent of Morrison's direct influence
I don't think you can easily blame the national government or the opposition but analysis of state governance is a valid analysis. Certainly a part of the inevitable inquiry.
There have been some pretty strange state government responses to "protesters" destroying public and private property over the last 4 years. An analysis of these actions is not unreasonable to ask for.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
There have been some pretty strange state government responses to "protesters" destroying public and private property over the last 4 years. An analysis of these actions is not unreasonable to ask for.
Of course.
My issue is with a couple of posters (not you) and others more broadly who see this as the responsibility of one thing/person/entity. It's Trump. It's Antifa. It's racism. It's cops. It's the Dems/Republicans. If only we could do something about X then this would all be fixed.
It might make you sleep better at night to attribute this all to your political opponents, but it's a pretty dumb way to look at this.
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@barbarian
What ARE the causes ?I see a bunch.
A murderous fuckwit of a cop.
Scumbag looters + Antifa + others???
Weak state law enforcement response emboldening them.Could go deeper into the simmering racial divide and the reasons for that, but that's a little beyond me.
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A key issue I think is a lot of American's have no faith in their system to ensure justice is served, especially when it comes to cops. To have a protest about a murder like this demanding that the cop be arrested is absurd. He should have been arrested immediately, but the first response from the police was "don't worry he's been fired". That just fueled the fire.
Things have really gotten out of hand now with Antifa and opportunistic criminals jumping in and making hay. Very sad to see, and the victims will be the hardworking people in those communities.
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@Frank said in US Politics:
@barbarian
What ARE the causes ?Could go deeper into the simmering racial divide and the reasons for that, but that's a little beyond me.
But that's it. If we're listing the causes of this (many and varied), you have to start with the simmering racial divide that is as old as the country itself, and how that manifests more recently in the area of law enforcement.
The George Floyd incident was just the catalyst. Saying that this was caused by a murderous cop is like saying the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand caused World War 1. I could also make a Wayne Barnes forward pass causing ABs 07 exit thing here but this thread is enough of a mess without me being so careless as to bring that into it.
Then you throw in racial inequality (perceived or actual), income inequality, the virus and ensuing unemployment, and just a general sense of anger (which hurts and helps Trump in almost equal measure) and you have a powder keg waiting for a match.
The extent of these demonstrations shows to me that this has tapped something far deeper than just one bad cop in one city, or some organisation like Antifa or this Governor or that President.
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@barbarian nice one. I think we really need some authentic info from the looters. The subjects will be overwhelmingly young males.
Why mate?
What was your reasoning the moment you left where you were to go join the riots?
Why didn't you bail out at any stage and go home?
Any remorse for the damage?
Would you do it again? Lockdown?
Who were you angry with?
Was it fun?And you gotta be ready for any answer they give. Being dismissive and insulting won't provide any insights. We have to know the looters view of their lives in this world, not just cancel them as only thugs. Everyone of them knows looting is fundamentally wrong, yet pushed that aside for some reason.
I fear that we've created a world where huge tracts of our youth males can see no tangible benefits of modern society. No meaning to strive for.
Something's going on with these people and it'll be partially unearthed by a "walk a mile in my shoes" type approach.This stuff in US is hugely important globally, and all we're going to see on the media is gargantuan and grotesque finger pointing.
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Yesterday in London, there was as pretty large mob which went outside 10 Downing Street - they yelled out fuck the police as one. Anitfa sign was front and central.
Like Covid, it's spreading.
I certainly side with those upset about Floyd and what caused it. I don't side with rioters, looters and those who like to cause anarchy. I tend to find that the real crossover between the two groups is little.
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@barbarian said in US Politics:
But that's it. If we're listing the causes of this (many and varied), you have to start with the simmering racial divide that is as old as the country itself, and how that manifests more recently in the area of law enforcement.
I'd suggest you need to start with income disparity. The fact that inner-city African Americans are more likely to not be college educated, be from single parent households, be in (relative) poverty, be located in high crime areas and it's small wonder that police, who spend every minute of their working day surrounded by criminals or the victims of crime are on edge.
Particularly when such interactions are marked by a high propensity for violence amongst suspected criminals.
Given the marked decline in the employment market, it's not surprising to find white youths all too eager to engage in mindless violence too.
The media seems to be strangely quiet that the other two officers heavily involved in the events surrounding Floyd's death were Asian and Hispanic.
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The thing that stands out to me is the almost fetishised military gear the cops are wearing. That the first thing I would get rid off.
Hard to convince the community you are there to help them when you look like you have prepared to fight the masses.
Second thing is they have to crush Antifa and the violent protestors.
Leave the peaceful ones (for Christ sake stop pepper spraying woman and children).
It’s a shit show however you look at it. Hard to see a way back.
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@antipodean said in US Politics:
The media seems to be strangely quiet that the other two officers heavily involved in the events surrounding Floyd's death were Asian and Hispanic.
I don't disagree with your post, but just on this I have heard that fact a few times and I wouldn't consider myself to be following the incident forensically.
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