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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@Kirwan said in US Politics:
This. Both parties strive to see people as part of seperate groups, and turn those groups on each other.
Be it race, sexual orientation, views on guns or abortion, whatever.
Democrats think Republicans are evil, Rebublicans think Democrats are immoral and want to destroy the country. So when horrible things happen like what this cop did, it's like lighting a flame on a powder keg.
Nobody on either side of the political divides is trying to unite, it's all attack for their own advantage. It's a mess.Or perhaps the divide is with the people themselves?
One group is happy with liberal immigration, outsourcing, chinese imports, etc, and thinks being socially progressive makes them good people. They struggle to understand how anyone could disagree with policies & beliefs that are obviously moral and right. Say, 30% of the population, quite wealthy, pretty much insulated from the effects of the policies they espouse.
The other group sees too much immigration, cheap imports and economic policy as a threat to their prospects, have seen declining prosperity and who feel left behind and taken for granted. They are far more motivated by economic need than "social justice" and resent being labelled somehow morally inferior for thinking this. Say 30% who feel pretty powerless and ignored.
The first group isn't going to give up their position of power and moral beliefs without a fight and the latter group aren't going to go away. The US needs serious leaders who want to unify people, but when you look at the political "giants" of the last ten years, the likes of Obama, Trump, Biden and Pelosi come to mind. That pretty much says it all.
Agree with much of that @Victor-Meldrew.
My view is that you could get the best leader for President and even VP, but you need strong if not better leadership at the state level. Strong leadership in the counties also. Law enforcement problems by some police in some states have long been a problem. It’s not symptomatic of politician X or politician Y.
Whilst we’re rambling, for some time I’ve also held that one of the fundamental problems is the Constitution. Baseball is no longer America’s favourite past time, but rather interpretation of the Constitution!
The ‘system’ (political, judicial, enforcement) is inherently adversarial. The legacies of past actions run so deep and have become ingrained in people’s identities which at an individual let alone a societal level are difficult to break down.
Therefore Constitutional change is nigh on impossible. So what happens is the appointment of activist judges to interpret it in “like-minded” ways...
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@JC said in US Politics:
Many of the smartest people I know are Americans. Trump and Biden aren’t fit to be seen in the same room as them. A pox on both their corrupt houses.
I know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt. The Democrat party sure, I would generally argue equally as bad as each other - but the willingness of so many Republicans to put up with and pretend to support Trump in order to retain power has them shading it at present for me.
As to smart Americans - yes, there are still a shitload of them. Unfortunately smart and independent thinking is exactly what is going to get you nowhere (or fired) with Trump. That's the swamp he's been draining, the swamp of expertise, and re-filling it with sycophants. All Biden would have to do is not cause long term damage to the institutions to make a better president. Shit candidate? Sure, but when a cardboard cut-out would cause less harm than the alternative I don't think that particularly matters. -
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Rembrandt said in US Politics:
I was a little concerned after Corona but I think the footage of the last few nights settles it.
Congrats on 4 more years Mr Trump.
Mate, this is a truly bizarre attitude and conclusion.
These protests are no longer characterised by 'racial justice' they are now representative of random assaults on the street, vandalism, arson, destruction of peoples livelihoods and multiple murders (unsure how much footage is circulating in msm but their is plenty on social potentially further discrediting the CNN types ). Democrats have largely been in support of the protests (and antifa) while Republicans have largely been against and Trump in particular has been strongly against. Support for Federal & Military action to shutdown the protests is now in the majority (https://assets.morningconsult.com/wp-uploads/2020/06/01181629/2005131_crosstabs_POLICE_RVs_FINAL_LM-1.pdf) and democrat State representatives have proven they will not help protect people or property, a terrific advertisement for the importance of the 2nd amendment.
Not holding my breath for BLM to actually give a damn about David Dorn or any other casualty of this. Black lives only matter to these people if it achieves a political aim.
What has any of that got to do with you saying that you were concerned 'after' corona, but the riots and violence have you happy that you think Trump will be re-elected?
Corona is not over, 20000 new cases in the US yesterday.
107000 Americans are dead from it, and still rising so will be many more yet. It's pretty poor that your concern is for the damage this might do to your favourite's election hopes.
The protests/riots/looting/violence are a mess. It's pretty poor that you would be happy that you think your favourite's 'talking tough' on the issue means he'll be re-elected, or that you'd think it in any way appropriate to offer him congratulations during this.You've been sucked right into this alternate world political bullshit mate. It's not fiction, it's not a game. People are dying.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"
Some seriously dodgy family business dealings
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
I know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
I think he has had a massive negative impact on the US over the last few decades. The laws he has written and/or advocated for are gross
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@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"
Some seriously dodgy family business dealings
Biden's corrupt for sure.
He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.
Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth. -
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"
Some seriously dodgy family business dealings
Biden's corrupt for sure.
He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.
Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.Right, trump and truth. Good luck with that.
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
@Winger said in US Politics:
@Victor-Meldrew said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
know very little about Biden, but the criticism I have seen is largely about him being old and doddery rather than corrupt.
Google "Biden Ukrainian Oil"
Some seriously dodgy family business dealings
Biden's corrupt for sure.
He did (and bragged about it on tape) what Trump was accused of.
Trump needs to smash the scum who have gone after him.
Not with lies (that the Democrat leaders and fake news media knew were lies) that they threw at Trump. But with truth.Right, trump and truth. Good luck with that.
Trump doesn't need to rely on lies to take his enemies down. That's the fortunate position he's in. He been investigated (costing many millions) for years and nothing was found. And what was found on his contacts (not him) is now slowly being discredited (like Flynn). But he must have a gold mine of real evidence on his opponents by now. (Biden for one of course helps by shooting his mouth off).
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@mariner4life Yeah I know, it’s not funny anymore. Everyone is sick of it all over the world and if the people are not turned loose, if they don’t stop sitting on the safety valve and let some pressure off the people, everyone is going to explode and what happens is going to be worse than ANY disease.
Anything can set it off, Like what is already happening in the US:
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@Ihadit Given what happened in Minneapolis and the state of US race relations, exacerbated by the greatest President ever in the world who has done more for blacks even than that fulla Abe - you were always going to get demonstrations and riots. COVID not to blame there.
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wow
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@Frank An interesting video, thanks for sharing.
My issue came when I looked at his social feed. He's a big Trump guy, with the same hacky cartoons and attacks on Biden and Obama as Hannity and the other Trump cheerleaders. 100% it affects how I view his statements in the video. Can I trust him to be impartial, and not cherry-pick statistics to that support his political perspective? I'm not sure I can.
And before you ask I'd be exactly the same if it was someone from the other side raising the opposite side of the issue.
It's my broader issue with US political discussion, everyone is so far in their own corners you don't know what/who to actually trust when it comes to complex issues like this.
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@barbarian said in US Politics:
@Frank An interesting video, thanks for sharing.
My issue came when I looked at his social feed. He's a big Trump guy, with the same hacky cartoons and attacks on Biden and Obama as Hannity and the other Trump cheerleaders. 100% it affects how I view his statements in the video. Can I trust him to be impartial, and not cherry-pick statistics to that support his political perspective? I'm not sure I can.
And before you ask I'd be exactly the same if it was someone from the other side raising the opposite side of the issue.
It's my broader issue with US political discussion, everyone is so far in their own corners you don't know what/who to actually trust when it comes to complex issues like this.
You've hit the nail on the head mate. So much of the US discussion is various groups screaming their own views, giving no consideration to the views of others. It's like the fringe has become the mainstream
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@barbarian
Oh indeed that true.
And the partisanship is worse and worse.
For example, I no longer consider the NY Times as anything more than a sophisticated liberal propaganda mechanism.I go with my gut, which of course means I am probably prejudiced as fuck - lol
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@Toddy said in US Politics:
What news source do people here use to follow what's going on in the States? I'm guessing most aren't impartial, but surely some must be better than others.
I'm currently subscribed to the WSJ and have been enjoying it so far.
Clearly I have to expand my reading. Is WSJ quite centrist?
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@dogmeat If I may, I would like to comment further;
Most if not all the protest in the US are in Democratically controlled cities and they are where lockdown measures have been most strictly enforced.
These Democratic Leaders, quick to fine and even jail average citizens for violating their lockdown edicts, have shown indecisiveness in action, excessive restraint in enforcing laws and protecting the people and their property, and otherwise exhibiting weak leadership abilities in dealing with the criminal arsonists and thieves that have infiltrated otherwise peaceful protesters, thereby emboldening them and making the situation much worse.
You may be right. What Trump has done may be more of the underlying factor than may first appear. It hasn’t just helped the blacks but other races as well including whites.
But...why is it spreading outside the US?
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@Frank said in US Politics:
@barbarian
Oh indeed that true.
And the partisanship is worse and worse.
For example, I no longer consider the NY Times as anything more than a sophisticated liberal propaganda mechanism.I go with my gut, which of course I am probably prejudiced as fuck - lol
I think we all have our inbuilt prejudices. But in the past everyone could accept certain truths, and there was a mutual respect for mainstream media. These days truth is what you make it. You can find an information source that echoes your own belief system. And that only makes people more extreme and less accepting of other viewpoints, believing those viewpoints to be nothing but lies
US Politics