Coronavirus - New Zealand
-
@Kirwan not that it's any kind of solace but I can't see any flavour of govt or bureaucracy handling this significantly better. In that many of the current mistakes would have popped up under other leadership etc. Or are connected to longer term problems with supplies, plans and the like (edited that to be clearer).
I 100% agree with your ideas for quarantine and widespread testing. Even with the benefit of hindsight it seems crazy we didn't go harder on that aspect of things.
It is more than unfortunate that genuine oversights/gaps in our methodology can have such huge and punishing outcomes. A mate at work pointed out that our "X days Covid free" should have been "X days since Covid detected" - but I guess no matter the messaging everyone gets fatigue and starts relaxing.
-
@canefan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan soft squishy robots made out of cardboard as it lasts quite a while on hard surfaces.
But hey they're just old fucks right? Contribute nothing to society. No one will miss them...
As long as the economy is sweet what's a few hundred or thousand deaths between friends?
Who's saying that though @canefan? Every response should be evidence-based. Doing nothing is a valid option, and comes with costs and benefits, as does a comprehensive lockdown at the other end of the spectrum. The arithmetic of relative harm should be dispassionate and complete, taking into account the long-run impacts as well as the short-run. It's not heresy to suggest that there are some scenarios where the benefits of protecting people like me are outweighed by the costs that others will have to bear,
That's not suggesting that I want to die or that the government should have me killed. A decision doesn't mean automatic death for an individual, that's not how the risk calculations work. It's saying that if we roll the dice and choose an option where the relative probability of someone like me dying is greater than the relative probability of a 20 year old dying, then that's OK. I'm hardly going to be over the moon about it, and I hope that the outcome is that neither of us die, but I understand the marginal extra risk that someone my age carries. The truth is I carry a higher risk in practically every aspect of my life than a 20 year old does, it's the price of ageing.
-
@Paekakboyz i guess the key is, did they learn anything from the 1st lockdown to do it better this time, or are they just gonna do it the same again?
-
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Paekakboyz i guess the key is, did they learn anything from the 1st lockdown to do it better this time, or are they just gonna do it the same again?
Hard to say. Will butchers be allowed to open under Lvl 4 this time? Has any more work been done into what actually is essential? I suspect it will be identical, in which case, yeah, we learned nothing.
-
@Paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan not that it's any kind of solace but I can't see any flavour of govt or bureaucracy handling this significantly better. In that many of the current mistakes would have popped up under other leadership etc. Or are connected to longer term problems with supplies, plans and the like (edited that to be clearer).
I 100% agree with your ideas for quarantine and widespread testing. Even with the benefit of hindsight it seems crazy we didn't go harder on that aspect of things.
It is more than unfortunate that genuine oversights/gaps in our methodology can have such huge and punishing outcomes. A mate at work pointed out that our "X days Covid free" should have been "X days since Covid detected" - but I guess no matter the messaging everyone gets fatigue and starts relaxing.
I don't think this government can make unpopular decisions when the spotlight is on them.
They are happy to sneak through changes to things like abortion law when we are on lockdown, but the scrutiny that a hard decision on how to handle this crisis has them doing the least they can do.
-
@JC I think there are more places that have been able to operate under L2 & L3 that could safely operate under L4 too (given the work they did to be able to open at L3) but I am expecting they have learned nothing.
Hope they got lotsa ink in thier money printer...or Cindy's tree hasnt shed all it's leaves!
-
@Kirwan Opinion polls suggest the overwhelming majority of Kiwi's are pleased with the way the govt has handled COVID. The next poll will be interesting.
To expand on what @Paekakboyz wrote - do we really wish National had been in charge given the number of total fuck-ups they've managed over the last few months (and are still).
Election maybe just got interesting. Cindy's strategy has been to make it all about handling COVID and deflect away all other questions with "we are busy managing a pandemic". How will that play if it's decided they've been mismanaging it?
-
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@JC I think there are more places that have been able to operate under L2 & L3 that could safely operate under L4 too (given the work they did to be able to open at L3) but I am expecting they have learned nothing.
Well the lessons from Australia should be noted, especially NSW. Our spread has been overwhelmingly driven by restaurants, pubs, churches and indoor gatherings.
Which is to say the rugby should still go ahead, with some sensible crowd restrictions. Shopping centres should stay open, again with sensible restrictions. There's not much evidence those places drive the spread of the virus.
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan Opinion polls suggest the overwhelming majority of Kiwi's are pleased with the way the govt has handled COVID. The next poll will be interesting.
To expand on what @Paekakboyz wrote - do we really wish National had been in charge given the number of total fuck-ups they've managed over the last few months (and are still).
Election maybe just got interesting. Cindy's strategy has been to make it all about handling COVID and deflect away all other questions with "we are busy managing a pandemic". How will that play if it's decided they've been mismanaging it?
Any my answer to that is do they have all the information? IMO, no they don't.
When the avalanche of bad news starts coming in, eg the businesses that are about fail, lying about when they knew about this most recent outbreak, mismanagement of the basics like quarantine, etc, etc, etc
And I don't care about whataboutery, my point is this lot are fucking this up.
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Opinion polls suggest the overwhelming majority of Kiwi's are pleased with the way the govt has handled COVID. The next poll will be interesting.
for round 1, I would agree, but I dot think they have learned enough form the lockdown to make this one have a lesser impact on our economy, thats without looking at the failures to date with the sheer number of people involved with the borders not being tested.
-
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
lying about when they knew about this most recent outbreak
channelling Winger a bit there.
If they are lying - it will come out and it will (rightly) cost them the election as Cindy has categorically said they announced lockdown within hours of it being known, "not up to weeks as has happened elsewhere"
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
lying about when they knew about this most recent outbreak
channelling Winger a bit there.
If they are lying - it will come out and it will (rightly) cost them the election as Cindy has categorically said they announced lockdown within hours of it being known, "not up to weeks as has happened elsewhere"
It did seem curious timing that after weeks of nothing they started talking about people wearing masks. I dont mind them taking a few days to assess the situation but it seems fanciful that they got word there was community spread of unknown magnitude in the early afternoon and locked us down within a few hours. If they did know something was up they should just say so
-
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
lying about when they knew about this most recent outbreak
channelling Winger a bit there.
If they are lying - it will come out and it will (rightly) cost them the election as Cindy has categorically said they announced lockdown within hours of it being known, "not up to weeks as has happened elsewhere"
I assume that is what National and Act have been setting up to get Cindy to categorically state that. We heard rumblings about a potential outbreak from someone in Auckland hospital on Saturday, so I believe they knew before they said they did.
-
grasping at straws to think the virus can stay alive in a refrigerated/frozen state for weeks and weeks?
-
@Kirwan we were in Auckland hospital end of last week getting baby check ups and they were far more stringent with their rules than they had been before. My wife, as usual, mentioned her hay fever symptoms which was never a problem before, but this time they made us both put on masks and wait in the foyer instead of the waiting room which surprised us. Made us wonder what had changed.
-
maybe the Victoria outbreak was what caused them to take a more cautious approach the last couple of weeks and heighten awareness again fearing an outbreak like Victoria?
-
@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
maybe the Victoria outbreak was what caused them to take a more cautious approach the last couple of weeks and heighten awareness again fearing an outbreak like Victoria?
Something changed in the weekend