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First lockdown, didnt want to do it, but I bought into it, drank the coolade, saw the bigger picture.
I also think, Cindy, delivering the message to the country was better received than if it had been Soimon or Judith delivering it, people bought it, because Cindy comes across more empathetic (not saying they cant also, but Cindy sells the 'image' better)
That being said, I think there have been far too many gaps in the fence, despite the hard line of go hard go early, they missed the trick early on with restricting our borders, then when they put up a bigger fence,they didnt make sure all the people with the access key were being tested and isolated.
Now, we are staring down the barrell of a 2nd lockdown, and I aint happy!
Wednesday night, I was seething, I had a sick feeling in my stomach all Wednesday night, I was better last night, but I am still pissed about this whole thing.
Too many holes in the fence and too many with an access key has put us back to where we are:
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@Kirwan I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I'm also not throwing shit when I don't know where the blame lies. I'll wait and stockpile for that.
I'm talking more about the chains of decision makers below govt that are useless. DHBs don't seem to be able to piss in a jar. DoH have chains and chains of advisors with responsibility hard to find (eg what ever happened about the leak of names or explanation on why Boag was even receiving them to her private email?).
Those are things that any govt has to battle through. You are correct in saying that their are degrees of how well you can make it work. I'm simply adding that all the best will in the world won't create perfection in this complicated environment.
Let's equate it to software development and how all the money spent on build, test and deploy can still result in bugs that look bloody obvious once experienced after release. Was the fault with testing? Release Management? Governance? or was it simply an unforseen combination that looks like an obvious miss? I bet those paying for the release trusted evryone in the chain to do their job correctly and that the processes were pretty clearly explained. -
@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I'm also not throwing shit when I don't know where the blame lies. I'll wait and stockpile for that.
I'm talking more about the chains of decision makers below govt that are useless. DHBs don't seem to be able to piss in a jar. DoH have chains and chains of advisors with responsibility hard to find (eg what ever happened about the leak of names or explanation on why Boag was even receiving them to her private email?).
Those are things that any govt has to battle through. You are correct in saying that their are degrees of how well you can make it work. I'm simply adding that all the best will in the world won't create perfection in this complicated environment.
Let's equate it to software development and how all the money spent on build, test and deploy can still result in bugs that look bloody obvious once experienced after release. Was the fault with testing? Release Management? Governance? or was it simply an unforseen combination that looks like an obvious miss? I bet those paying for the release trusted evryone in the chain to do their job correctly and that the processes were pretty clearly explained.Using software development as the analogy, I wouldn't blame the developers or testers if a feature wasn't working if management hadn't asked for the feature in the first place, or not set priorities properly for the roadmap.
The buck stops at the top. If the people below aren't getting the job done, it's also their job to fix that.
We had zero cases and a shut down border. We had weekly stories about people escaping from quarantine.
It's obvious where the issue is.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I'm also not throwing shit when I don't know where the blame lies. I'll wait and stockpile for that.
I'm talking more about the chains of decision makers below govt that are useless. DHBs don't seem to be able to piss in a jar. DoH have chains and chains of advisors with responsibility hard to find (eg what ever happened about the leak of names or explanation on why Boag was even receiving them to her private email?).
Those are things that any govt has to battle through. You are correct in saying that their are degrees of how well you can make it work. I'm simply adding that all the best will in the world won't create perfection in this complicated environment.
Let's equate it to software development and how all the money spent on build, test and deploy can still result in bugs that look bloody obvious once experienced after release. Was the fault with testing? Release Management? Governance? or was it simply an unforseen combination that looks like an obvious miss? I bet those paying for the release trusted evryone in the chain to do their job correctly and that the processes were pretty clearly explained.Wonder if you would be so forgiving if this was happening under a National govt?
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Unfortunately complacency seems to be hard wired into Kiwi DNA.
People not getting tested when they had symptoms is inexcusable.
Doctors not testing people who had symptoms is inexcusable.
Fuck knuckle retards trying to break out of (and into) isolation is inexcusable.
But the government has to shoulder a massive amount of the blame because there was plenty of evidence even before COVID that there is always a hard core of the population who won't do the right thing and feel laws and regulations don't apply to them.
We all know it so why not plan to counter it.
What is really criminal is the apparent disconnect between the public pronouncements about vigilance, the border is our defence, don't relax your efforts, COVID is a tricky virus, it will come back etc and the lack of action to enforce those blithe utterances.
If the border was our first defence what's the penalty for abandoning your post in the face of the enemy?
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Unfortunately complacency seems to be hard wired into Kiwi DNA.
People not getting tested when they had symptoms is inexcusable.
Doctors not testing people who had symptoms is inexcusable.
Fuck knuckle retards trying to break out of (and into) isolation is inexcusable.
But the government has to shoulder a massive amount of the blame because there was plenty of evidence even before COVID that there is always a hard core of the population who won't do the right thing and feel laws and regulations don't apply to them.
We all know it so why not plan to counter it.
What is really criminal is the apparent disconnect between the public pronouncements about vigilance, the border is our defence, don't relax your efforts, COVID is a tricky virus, it will come back etc and the lack of action to enforce those blithe utterances.
If the border was our first defence what's the penalty for abandoning your post in the face of the enemy?
I'd like this twice if I could.
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All this talk about the Nats probably not doing any better is BS. Labour are in government, they have the privileges and the responsibility. That's what happens when you wear the big boy pants. If they don't want to accept the burden and the responsibility perhaps they should step aside and let the other lot have a crack? This happened on their watch, the consequences are on them, those are the facts. If the roles were reversed I would be just as upset with the blue team as I am with the red
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Add middle managers to The List for deciding we were in a "post-Covid" world and managing sick leave and the like as if the pandemic wasn't just over the fence waiting for weakness, which then forces individuals to consider whether to attend work or not when they are sick and shouldn't be there.
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@Godder said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Add middle managers to The List for deciding we were in a "post-Covid" world and managing sick leave and the like as if the pandemic wasn't just over the fence waiting for weakness, which then forces individuals to consider whether to attend work or not when they are sick and shouldn't be there.
People acted like we were in a post-Covid world because a government that went to great lengths to build up trust in the public mind then used that trust to sell a narrative of having crushed the disease. David Clark explicitly told us we are the envy of the world for having done so. If the fault was in believing the story we were sold, why should we believe what we are being sold now?
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@Kirwan I'm not letting anyone off the hook. I'm also not throwing shit when I don't know where the blame lies. I'll wait and stockpile for that.
I'm talking more about the chains of decision makers below govt that are useless. DHBs don't seem to be able to piss in a jar. DoH have chains and chains of advisors with responsibility hard to find (eg what ever happened about the leak of names or explanation on why Boag was even receiving them to her private email?).
Those are things that any govt has to battle through. You are correct in saying that their are degrees of how well you can make it work. I'm simply adding that all the best will in the world won't create perfection in this complicated environment.
Let's equate it to software development and how all the money spent on build, test and deploy can still result in bugs that look bloody obvious once experienced after release. Was the fault with testing? Release Management? Governance? or was it simply an unforseen combination that looks like an obvious miss? I bet those paying for the release trusted evryone in the chain to do their job correctly and that the processes were pretty clearly explained.In your analogy the fault is in the requirements. Always.
Now to use your analogy, who sets the requirements?
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Sam thinks we're all in it (L3) together. In less than 1 hour we will find out. Considering that within moments of the Auckland L3 announcement people were escaping the city to all points, I don't think this is unreasonable. Covid19 is like a farking dandelion, it pops up everywhere
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@canefan although reading that, Sam is also not happy the Govt aint buying into the CovidCard thing...
Hearing mixed messages around the traps.
IMO putting NZ into L4 again wont be as effective as I am not sure as many people will abide by the rules this time.
I think plenty more businesses should be able to operate at L3 too, but doesnt appear much ahs changed, guess we will see later if they have learned anything
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan although reading that, Sam is also not happy the Govt aint buying into the CovidCard thing...
Hearing mixed messages around the traps.
IMO putting NZ into L4 again wont be as effective as I am not sure as many people will abide by the rules this time.
I think plenty more businesses should be able to operate at L3 too, but doesnt appear much ahs changed, guess we will see later if they have learned anything
He is sort of right (although his solution might not be best), our contact tracing appears to be pants as they still can't ID the source of the new cluster. Or if they know they ain't telling
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One thing not discussed in this article is that many of the vaccine candidates are unconventional (viral vector, mRNA liposome nanoparticles) and require different manufacturing, or require large volume production of viral proteins and novel adjuvants (expensive, slow, tricky to get right).
Coronavirus - New Zealand