Coronavirus - Overall
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@MajorRage 100% , mas trying to get to the fact everyone views its from a bias viewpoint, its a really complicated situation, it cant be boiled down to "my freedom!" or "we have to save all the lives"
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@Rembrandt said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Interesting to see that the average life expectancy for those whose deaths have been attributed to covid in Australia is higher than life expectancy in the general population.
Mate, I don't think you quite understand life expectancy. For a start those that have died from Covid do not have any life expectancy. They are dead. The life expectancy they had was prior to them having Covid and subsequently dying. The fact that these already deceased persons were older than the average life expectancy has nothing to do with Covid and everything to do with their genetics and previous life style.
In looking at life expectancy statistics it is very clear that the older one is the higher age they are likely to reach as they have already dodged many a bullet. That is clear immutable, statistical fact. Example: Male life expectancy in England and Wales - Male aged 90 is expected to live to 94.04. Male aged 91 is expected to live to 94.76. Source: Office for National Statistics, life expectancy tables 2016.
To extrapolate anything from the age at death of those Covid sufferers in life expectancy terms is just plain wrong.
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@Siam said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Winger the poor, or the elderly for that matter, don't get a seat at the decision table.
They should be grateful at these times of diversity and equality that they've got university graduates on 6 figures deciding what's best for their lives
In the UK they do.
It's called The House of Lords
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
If I was older I would think I would sacrifice my rights if it meant my children or grand children were able to live normally.
Conversely I'm happy to "sacrifice my rights" and be lockdowned for a period if it gives an older person more time to spend with their children and grandchildren in the future (and those children and grandchildren more time with their grandparents).
How long is a period? And what do you mean by giving them more time together, given that as long as this thing lasts (likely 3-4 years in my opinion) nobody can see grandparents as they are vulnerable and must be protected?
People stop giving a shit after a certain amount of time - this rule applies to every single person on the planet, it's only the timeframe that varies. Hence, my question of how long is a period. You have to accept that just because your timeframe may be 18 months, that may not be the same for other people. Calling people selfish as they have reached that point before you is a bit harsh in my view (i'm not saying you are, but many are).
I don't know how long a period is, for me I can handle a longer lockdown than others it seems, others it will be less of a time. The point being that a lockdown wouldn't be indefinite, but other measures could certainly last longer e.g. social distancing, wearing masks (but even that sets of the "my rights" brigade), less opportunities for overseas travel etc.
Giving them more time together in the future by them not dying of Covid was what I was meaning not giving them more time to see them during Covid.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia running a business within covid regulations is really fucking hard, not exactly cheap, while at the same time severely impacting the amount of revenue able to be generated. How long should that period be?
There are no easy answers to any of the questions being raised. And no one escapes covid unscathed
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@Nepia The lockdown wouldn't be indefinite? Well, when do we start hearing more about the end of it then.
All the answers seem to relate to things like vaccines, reduced numbers etc etc. But there is no answer. That is the very definition of indefinite.
Not everybody qualified for furlough schemes here in the UK, and people aren't just going to sit there and burn through their savings "indefinitely". Hence, why there are so many view on this & people are asking why we are treating this virus so differently to everything else that has a much higher mortality rate in the elderly.
Edit: To be clear, I'm not really disagreeing with you, just throwing out another point of view to consider.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia running a business within covid regulations is really fucking hard, not exactly cheap, while at the same time severely impacting the amount of revenue able to be generated. How long should that period be?
Again, I didn't stipulate a period because I don't know a period, which is why I said period. I want everything to be as short as possible so we can get back to normal as soon as possible. I want your business to be up and running as soon as possible, I want the overseas students at one of the higher ed providers I work for to be able to come back so that our staff on reduced hours can get back to work. But I also want that balanced out by not having Covid ravaging through our countries (Oz, NZ) like it has in other places of the world.
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@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Nepia The lockdown wouldn't be indefinite? Well, when do we start hearing more about the end of it then.
All the answers seem to relate to things like vaccines, reduced numbers etc etc. But there is no answer. That is the very definition of indefinite.
Not everybody qualified for furlough schemes here in the UK, and people aren't just going to sit there and burn through their savings "indefinitely". Hence, why there are so many view on this & people are asking why we are treating this virus so differently to everything else that has a much higher mortality rate in the elderly.
Lockdown's don't have to be indefinite, NZ is not really in lockdown, most of Oz is not really in lockdown. Isn't most of the UK not on strict lockdown at the moment? It might be a bit of a roller coaster at times when things have to tighten for a bit. TBH, I think this is our generations big worldwide event, and I'd rather it be this than a World War (think of those poor bastards in the first half of last century - they got two wars and this).
Because other things that have a high mortality rate for the elderly don't put as much pressure on the medical profession as Covid does.
@MajorRage said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Edit: To be clear, I'm not really disagreeing with you, just throwing out another point of view to consider.
Fair enough, although I don't think I've ever not considered that point of view, and there's lots of posters discussing the alternate point of view on here so probably no need for me to as well .
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@Snowy said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Hmmm. Donald told me a few weeks ago what was happening here was a disaster, our second wave was happening, words to that effect anyway. Maybe I shouldn't listen to him anymore.
He's probably concerned that America isn't the #1 on the list. With his rallies and other ego stroking events he's certainly doing his part to get them there!
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat interesting to see how Sweden's strategy is panning out.... I wonder if the infection rates are dropping there?
Looks like infection rates on the up
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@Kiwiwomble yeah alot of Europe seem to be climbing again, which doesnt bode well if it is a cold winter.
I think our lockdown coinciding with summer conditions in Autumn helped alot, and most places had a mild winter.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat interesting to see how Sweden's strategy is panning out.... I wonder if the infection rates are dropping there?
Looks like infection rates on the up
That is actually not bad, the current positive numbers in their second wave, compared to others. Who are recording numbers already twice as big as March/April peak (because of broader testing of course).
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@Kiwiwomble yeah alot of Europe seem to be climbing again, which doesnt bode well if it is a cold winter.
I think our lockdown coinciding with summer conditions in Autumn helped alot, and most places had a mild winter.
Yeah going to be a rough old winter.
The people are rebelling big time as well. So many simply wonβt listen to government rules.
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@Winger said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Total death numbers for the US. Last 4 years
TOTAL U.S. DEATHS [ALL CAUSES]:
2018 Total Deaths US: 2,839,205 (237,000/month)
2017 Total Deaths US: 2,813,503 (234,000/month)
2019 Total Deaths US: 2,855,000 (238,000/month)
2020 Total Deaths US (jan - week 9/26): 2,130,000 (236,000/month)
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Weekly-Counts-of-Deaths-by-State-and-Select-Causes/muzy-jte6π
2,130,000 + (236,000/month x 3) [Oct, Nov, Dec] = 2,838,000 [assumption based on monthly avg]
2020: 2,838,000 [3-month assumption insert]
2019: 2,855,000
2018: 2,839,000
2017: 2,814,000Pretty similar numbers and calculations in this post , as in an instagram post which was subject of a factcheck by AAP.
https://www.aap.com.au/the-us-isnt-headed-for-fewer-deaths-in-2020-with-covid-19/