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@Stockcar86 Trump generates such a powerful response either way, and Biden is such an uninspiring candidate, I still think the question is will the people be happy with another 4 years or do they simply want him out. I expect the voter turnout to be much higher this time, which may be bad news for Trump but who really knows
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@Crucial said in US Politics:
@reprobate I liked your post on a general level.
Without getting involved in a critique of @Rembrandt , I can say that I find it useful to step back every now and then and remind myself that I am simply a sideline commentator.
It is very easy (and I put my hand up as a culprit here) to get dragged into justifying your pov with an argument that starts to blinker you.
This is the very thing that many of us complain about, with the increasing divisions of thought and entrenched positions.
It is important to reset and try and look at the other view every now and then.A lot of the time the thread is a Trump echo chamber, with all this evidence that Biden has done this and his son has done that and that Trump can do no wrong. There is not a lot of consideration of the flaws of both men, which I guess is something that US politics seems to bring out as much as any. As the national guard and business owners prepare for riots or unrest regardless of the result, I suppose that is representative of what is going on in the US itself. Only a decisive victory will stand a chance to keep a lid on the madness. If it's close they might want to buckle up because the next few weeks could get very rocky
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It's a concern..what is he going to be like in a year or two?
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@canefan said in US Politics:
A lot of the time the thread is a Trump echo chamber
There's plenty of anti Trump comments in this thread. It's probably the majority over recent weeks. So definitely not an echo chamber.
I would say there are a handful of pro/anti Trump posters who seem very emotionally invested and lack nuance and self awareness. Certainly not exclusive to one side -
@Duluth said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
A lot of the time the thread is a Trump echo chamber
There's plenty of anti Trump comments in this thread. It's probably the majority over recent weeks. So definitely not an echo chamber.
I would say there are a handful of pro/anti Trump posters who seem very emotionally invested and lack nuance and self awareness. Certainly not exclusive to one sideThis is true and I think encapsulates how polarising Trump is. There are not many pro-Biden posts. It really is all about Trump.
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Crucial said in US Politics:
@reprobate I liked your post on a general level.
Without getting involved in a critique of @Rembrandt , I can say that I find it useful to step back every now and then and remind myself that I am simply a sideline commentator.
It is very easy (and I put my hand up as a culprit here) to get dragged into justifying your pov with an argument that starts to blinker you.
This is the very thing that many of us complain about, with the increasing divisions of thought and entrenched positions.
It is important to reset and try and look at the other view every now and then.A lot of the time the thread is a Trump echo chamber, with all this evidence that Biden has done this and his son has done that and that Trump can do no wrong. There is not a lot of consideration of the flaws of both men, which I guess is something that US politics seems to bring out as much as any. As the national guard and business owners prepare for riots or unrest regardless of the result, I suppose that is representative of what is going on in the US itself. Only a decisive victory will stand a chance to keep a lid on the madness. If it's close they might want to buckle up because the next few weeks could get very rocky
Irrespective of your political slant or whether you can ignore Trumps ‘style” because you agree with the general direction I don’t think you can get away from the point that under his Presidency the country has widened and firmed divisions, riots and discontent have started and a major health crisis has been handled poorly with many deaths.
You can point fingers elsewhere, call out the “other side” for hypocrisy and try and justify all you want but the final responsibility for leadership falls at his feet and he has displayed his qualities or lack of.
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I haven't ventured into this thread in awhile, so my apologies that I'm not going to try to catch up.
I just got home from voting. It's amazing to see the voter turnout, especially given how many early voted. In the county where my parents live, over 20% of registered voters had already voted as of last week. And yet my mom says the polling place she she works is the busiest it's ever been. I'm seeing reports on social of long lines in other rural areas, in places where you never wait.
In these areas, 90% of the votes are going to Trump. There's so much rabid support for him, it's mystifying. But anyway, if it's indicative of the passion of Trump supporters everywhere, I think he's going to win again.
In contrast, there is zero passion for Biden, even among those I know who are voting for him. (And the vast majority wouldn't know Kamala Harris if they met her in the street. She's a non-entity for independent and swing voters.) Admittedly, I live in a very "red" area, but it's not an exaggeration to say that I've seen 1,000 Trump signs for every one for Biden. Even in yards with signs for BLM, or LGBT, or union support, there is almost no visible support for Biden. I think it's really telling.
If Biden wins, it won't be because of anything he has done. It will be solely because he's not Trump. It's insane. I've never seen anyone inspire so much love and hate.
People have lost their damned minds. Is this an important election? Sure, they ALL are. But Trump can't single-handedly destroy democracy any more than Biden can single-handedly take away our personal liberties. People need to chill the fuck out.
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@Catogrande said in US Politics:
@Duluth said in US Politics:
@canefan said in US Politics:
A lot of the time the thread is a Trump echo chamber
There's plenty of anti Trump comments in this thread. It's probably the majority over recent weeks. So definitely not an echo chamber.
I would say there are a handful of pro/anti Trump posters who seem very emotionally invested and lack nuance and self awareness. Certainly not exclusive to one sideThis is true and I think encapsulates how polarising Trump is. There are not many pro-Biden posts. It really is all about Trump.
It does feel that way! Biden has significant experience in both the legislature and executive, so if there's any Democrat candidate who knows how government actually works, it's him. I'm sure he has also prepared a list of potential Secretaries (equivalent to our Ministers) in case he wins, and that list will probably have some strong talent, and no doubt a list of executive orders as well.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
Some of us don't look at the two candidates as much as the party's performances.
Wanting trump to win is also a reflection of the perceived strengths of that governing party, totally separate to the two leader's personalities.I think this is a hugely significant factor over there. Vote for the party, not for the candidate
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@Siam said in US Politics:
Wanting trump to win is also a reflection of the perceived strengths of that governing party, totally separate to the two leader's personalities.
Very true. A lot of "hold your nose" votes. My parents, for example, can't stand Trump as a person. But they're not going to suddenly vote for a big government politician who's liberal on social issues.
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@Siam said in US Politics:
My take is we have a dearth of objective media coverage on any topic, and a business incentive model that rewards muddling our access to information.
Either man will have a huge mountain to climb. If Trump wins does he continue to stoke the divisions or does he strike a more conciliatory tone? I can't see him taking option B but it is the more prudent one. In Biden's case I can't see him trying to do much, he is the Dem's attempt to unseat Trump, but surely he can't be more than a place sitter until the next election in 4 years when he will almost certainly not run
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@photo-fox said in US Politics:
People need to chill the fuck out.
Bro, please put your hat in the ring for 2024!!
Thanks for the on the ground reporting as well. Has anyone painted cows red or blue in your area? Biden's Bovines? Trump's Texas Longhorns?
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@photo-fox said in US Politics:
@Duluth I'm on a dairy farm in Illinois, but closer to St. Louis than Chicago. Extremely red area in a blue state.
St Louis Blues Fan?
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@canefan said in US Politics:
@Siam said in US Politics:
My take is we have a dearth of objective media coverage on any topic, and a business incentive model that rewards muddling our access to information.
Either man will have a huge mountain to climb. If Trump wins does he continue to stoke the divisions or does he strike a more conciliatory tone? I can't see him taking option B but it is the more prudent one. In Biden's case I can't see him trying to do much, he is the Dem's attempt to unseat Trump, but surely he can't be more than a place sitter until the next election in 4 years when he will almost certainly not run
Not run? He won’t be able to fucking walk by then!
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@Siam said in US Politics:
I also think the division continues without trump.
This is it. The media coverage in Australia today will be binary - a Trump win will prompt wailing, gnashing of teeth, cries of 'why?' and 'we're all doomed', while a Biden win will be pure jubilation. But in reality most people couldn't tell you why Biden is better, besides personality.
But I thought Rembrandt made some salient points about what Trump has actually done, and how the doomsaying prophecies have largely come to nothing. Sure he's erratic, and I can't say I'd vote for him. But his track record doesn't scream disaster, especially for us Aussies a million miles away.
Biden may be slightly steadier on foreign policy, but he also might be more hawkish which brings consequences for Aus and NZ.
Regardless of who wins today, the wider problems in the US will remain.
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