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@taniwharugby oops, was just sharing my exp rather than taking a dig at you
I think some of those leaders were (are) telling people it's bullshit and keep coming in to worship (oh, and tithe). But that there are def a lot of good people doing great work to spread the word.
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@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Promising a country will re-open in 3 months time is probably as useful as promising "Christmas won't be ruined". Just ruined January and February instead, but way worse. Hard to plan for in this environment, and making early line in the sand promises can just make things worse, like UK 3rd wave and 3rd lockdown.
Johnson isn't promising the country will be opened up in 3 months, though. He's made it very, very clear re-opening will be in 5 week stages with impacts assessed before the next stage.
The view taken was If restrictions hadn't been reduced over Christmas, people would have ignored them completely anyway, which would have made things much worse. Good move? We'll never know, but it was def. a value judgement.
The NZ plan(or UK plan) could be scuttled by the Manaus variant, of course, or whatever else mutates to be potentially largely impervient to immunity , but it's all on the hope side of the ledger at the moment.
I think the jury is out on the viability of a zero-Covid policy. The UK approach from the start seems to have been based on the view that zero-Covid is not viable, it's here to stay and vaccination is the only way forward. They are already planning booster jabs for new variants to be rolled out in Q4 of this year.
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@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And if a new variant appears in one part of the globe, I wonder if Boris sticks to that line in the sand of "fully open". I hope he;s right and I wish him all the best. Just that planning three and a half months ahead has been as much use as crystal ball gazing in the wider covid environment. I wonder if some of the lack of a detailed public plan is to avoid over-promising and under delivering.
We all hope it works out, but I think very few of us really expect it to. There will be bumps as variants uncover etc & regional reductions as levels rise.
I saw something on LinkedIn from one of the consultancies suggesting one big hurdle for international tourism will be travel insurers being prepared to cover Covid related risks again.
Turns out that's is my Dad's issue. More on that below.
That NZ has mostly weathered the worst of the economic and employment expectations, so we're in a great position if we can get the transition to opening right.
Right. So you are talking macro things then. That makes sense. I was struggling to see what unemployment had to do with it - gotcha.
They're wrong. It's mainly practical issues of how (very) expensive the flight out is, do they want/can they get travel insurance cover, and how long until they can get an MIQ spot to return.
While the official advice is "do not travel", it doesn't go as far as requiring approval: https://covid19.govt.nz/travel-and-the-border/leaving-new-zealand/
I put it on our family chat and as it stands, they can't really travel to anywhere that is not open with NZ. It's all down to insurance purposes. Basically a chain. They can't get insurance which means airlines won't allow them to fly (not SOP, Covid terms apparently). The reason they can't get insurance is due to official government guidance combined with their age & conditions etc.
There's definitely a group of us onshore on TSF who grouch about some of the specific decisions, me included. I'm thinking more about views toward the overarching NZ approach. So far your post has had likes and a reply of "100" from who I'd have anticipated. You and TeWaio are in the UK (?), Voodoo in Oz, plus Duluth and No Quarter (I think) in NZ. I'm anticipating a couple more names will join you soon
So my reply has likes fro people both onshore and offshore .... Struggling to see your point here mate!
TSF is a lot more thoughtful, and oscillates much less wildly than the remnants of NZ journalism though. We also feel like a good counterpoint to most of NZ Twitter's commentary.
Twitter and Covid don't mix. Actually, nothing and twitter mix.
I'm curious about the comments about your Dad. Those of us living in the Bay have had about seven and a half weeks in Level 4 or Level 3 in the last year. I'm very envious of where the UK is in their vaccination programme, but it feels a bit early to be envious of the likely lockdown situation in the two countries? Those I chat to in the UK seem to see it differently to your Dad. The grass is always greener on the other side, perhaps.
Aucklanders and the hospitality tourism will genuinely differ, but those of us in places like the Western Bay have had an okay ride on the whole and by global standards. Even if Baron would vehemently disagree with me
A lot of it is because of his time at life. He only fully retired at 70, and always planned to spend 70-75 pretty much so travelling. Going to places he hadn't been able to, basing himself here over NZ winter and doing Euro trips etc. At 75 he can only go for a maximum of 31 days apparently. So this is being taken away from him.
The grass is certainly greener in this situation, as I think most people would rather be sitting n the bay, playing golf 3-4x a week. Ultimately, I think he just massively misses his grandkids. My son has just turned 9 and is having some issues & my dad as an ex teacher/headmaster think he is in a great position to help out. But he can't.
@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Weird post above by MajorRage.
Not bad, just weird. As it positioned a POV which is almost 100% opposite to the way I was feeling about it. Interesting, and me me think how I feel which I summarise below.
It's almost going exactly to plan with the light at the end of the tunnel even earlier than expected.
Locked down.
Closed border.
Increase ICU capacity etc
Contain or eliminate when pops back up.
Hope for vaccines so can re-open.That's exactly what is happening.
Use of the word 'plan' and 'hope' are probably interchangeable on some parts, along with 'luck' and even 'unintended consquences' (E.g. surprise elimination in first loickdown meant ambitions were raised.)
Promising a country will re-open in 3 months time is probably as useful as promising "Christmas won't be ruined". Just ruined January and February instead, but way worse. Hard to plan for in this environment, and making early line in the sand promises can just make things worse, like UK 3rd wave and 3rd lockdown.
The NZ plan(or UK plan) could be scuttled by the Manaus variant, of course, or whatever else mutates to be potentially largely impervient to immunity , but it's all on the hope side of the ledger at the moment.
I hope a few of my responses have helped explain why my post isn't really weird at all (I think).
It's the p.o.v of somebody who wants to see his family but can't due to the extreme nature of the NZ response & is wondering where this ends. It's not a criticism of New Zealand. It's a curiosity of how NZ's "perfect" response is compatible with those parts of the world whose response has been the opposite.
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
And if a new variant appears in one part of the globe, I wonder if Boris sticks to that line in the sand of "fully open". I hope he;s right and I wish him all the best. Just that planning three and a half months ahead has been as much use as crystal ball gazing in the wider covid environment. I wonder if some of the lack of a detailed public plan is to avoid over-promising and under delivering.
We all hope it works out, but I think very few of us really expect it to. There will be bumps as variants uncover etc & regional reductions as levels rise.
I saw something on LinkedIn from one of the consultancies suggesting one big hurdle for international tourism will be travel insurers being prepared to cover Covid related risks again.
Turns out that's is my Dad's issue. More on that below.
That NZ has mostly weathered the worst of the economic and employment expectations, so we're in a great position if we can get the transition to opening right.
Right. So you are talking macro things then. That makes sense. I was struggling to see what unemployment had to do with it - gotcha.
They're wrong. It's mainly practical issues of how (very) expensive the flight out is, do they want/can they get travel insurance cover, and how long until they can get an MIQ spot to return.
While the official advice is "do not travel", it doesn't go as far as requiring approval: https://covid19.govt.nz/travel-and-the-border/leaving-new-zealand/
I put it on our family chat and as it stands, they can't really travel to anywhere that is not open with NZ. It's all down to insurance purposes. Basically a chain. They can't get insurance which means airlines won't allow them to fly (not SOP, Covid terms apparently). The reason they can't get insurance is due to official government guidance combined with their age & conditions etc.
There's definitely a group of us onshore on TSF who grouch about some of the specific decisions, me included. I'm thinking more about views toward the overarching NZ approach. So far your post has had likes and a reply of "100" from who I'd have anticipated. You and TeWaio are in the UK (?), Voodoo in Oz, plus Duluth and No Quarter (I think) in NZ. I'm anticipating a couple more names will join you soon
So my reply has likes fro people both onshore and offshore .... Struggling to see your point here mate!
TSF is a lot more thoughtful, and oscillates much less wildly than the remnants of NZ journalism though. We also feel like a good counterpoint to most of NZ Twitter's commentary.
Twitter and Covid don't mix. Actually, nothing and twitter mix.
I'm curious about the comments about your Dad. Those of us living in the Bay have had about seven and a half weeks in Level 4 or Level 3 in the last year. I'm very envious of where the UK is in their vaccination programme, but it feels a bit early to be envious of the likely lockdown situation in the two countries? Those I chat to in the UK seem to see it differently to your Dad. The grass is always greener on the other side, perhaps.
Aucklanders and the hospitality tourism will genuinely differ, but those of us in places like the Western Bay have had an okay ride on the whole and by global standards. Even if Baron would vehemently disagree with me
A lot of it is because of his time at life. He only fully retired at 70, and always planned to spend 70-75 pretty much so travelling. Going to places he hadn't been able to, basing himself here over NZ winter and doing Euro trips etc. At 75 he can only go for a maximum of 31 days apparently. So this is being taken away from him.
The grass is certainly greener in this situation, as I think most people would rather be sitting n the bay, playing golf 3-4x a week. Ultimately, I think he just massively misses his grandkids. My son has just turned 9 and is having some issues & my dad as an ex teacher/headmaster think he is in a great position to help out. But he can't.
@rapido said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
Weird post above by MajorRage.
Not bad, just weird. As it positioned a POV which is almost 100% opposite to the way I was feeling about it. Interesting, and me me think how I feel which I summarise below.
It's almost going exactly to plan with the light at the end of the tunnel even earlier than expected.
Locked down.
Closed border.
Increase ICU capacity etc
Contain or eliminate when pops back up.
Hope for vaccines so can re-open.That's exactly what is happening.
Use of the word 'plan' and 'hope' are probably interchangeable on some parts, along with 'luck' and even 'unintended consquences' (E.g. surprise elimination in first loickdown meant ambitions were raised.)
Promising a country will re-open in 3 months time is probably as useful as promising "Christmas won't be ruined". Just ruined January and February instead, but way worse. Hard to plan for in this environment, and making early line in the sand promises can just make things worse, like UK 3rd wave and 3rd lockdown.
The NZ plan(or UK plan) could be scuttled by the Manaus variant, of course, or whatever else mutates to be potentially largely impervient to immunity , but it's all on the hope side of the ledger at the moment.
I hope a few of my responses have helped explain why my post isn't really weird at all (I think).
It's the p.o.v of somebody who wants to see his family but can't due to the extreme nature of the NZ response & is wondering where this ends. It's not a criticism of New Zealand. It's a curiosity of how NZ's "perfect" response is compatible with those parts of the world whose response has been the opposite.
Winners and losers mate. No response is perfect
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan not according to NZ media ....
NZ response may not have been perfect, but it's about as close to it as you can get.
I agree. But the heaviest price to be paid is to our freedom to travel. My parents haven't seen my sister and her family in Melbourne for over a year. It was pretty tough for everyone at Xmas not being able to see each other. Things we took for granted in 2019, everyone in the world feels further away right now
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@canefan I really hope we don't fritter that away as we come out of this mess. We all want to get back to normal, but I'm hoping our new normal has a bit more connectedness and empathy built into it (Dreaming!).
Then again a few years down the line, barring zombies or aliens or whatever the fuck is up next, this will be a crazy and shitty memory and life will truck on.
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@paekakboyz said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan I really hope we don't fritter that away as we come out of this mess. We all want to get back to normal, but I'm hoping our new normal has a bit more connectedness and empathy built into it (Dreaming!).
Then again a few years down the line, barring zombies or aliens or whatever the fuck is up next, this will be a crazy and shitty memory and life will truck on.
This is the third of these type of viruses during my professional life. SARS, MERS, now this. The other two aren't as memorable to us because they couldn't spread as well, but this has happened every 8 years or so. The big question is, what will we learn from all of this and how will we prepare for next time? The cynic in me says there will be lots of back slapping and handshakes all round. And the next time we will be as underprepared as before, once the appetite to be ready wanes
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@canefan I wonder if they are able to anticipate/predict mutations to help with the vaccines?
They have plenty of examples to study to see how the virus is changing and adapting to learn from?
I'm not sure. I was thinking about border management and detection protocols among other things. Would we be as efficient as Taiwan who wheeled out all their SARS era scanning gear and systems when covid showed up? I'm not convinced
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It's a curious feeling this morning...
- I do not want any more community cases of Covid
- There was an urgent Saturday 9pm press conference, Auckland went straight to level 3, and it has been event and sporting carnage elsewhere. So where are the community cases then? (But obviously loop back to 1.)
Perhaps Cabinet & the Ministry of Health need to go through the gears in sequence in Auckland, not jump them?
1pm today will be instructive.
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@donsteppa Given the places the guy had been too while symptomatic I don't think the govt had any choice but to go back to L3. They would have been very reluctant to as it was a golden opportunity for National.
Today and tomorrow are the critical ones given the likely gestation of any cases. Isn't today the day the gym contacts were told to get tested? Fingers crossed.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa Given the places the guy had been too while symptomatic I don't think the govt had any choice but to go back to L3. They would have been very reluctant to as it was a golden opportunity for National.
Today and tomorrow are the critical ones given the likely gestation of any cases. Isn't today the day the gym contacts were told to get tested? Fingers crossed.
Yep, I was trying to re-find that article yesterday. I'm sure I saw something that the gym contacts weren't to be tested until at least Wednesday, but I couldn't find it on the Herald site again.
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@donsteppa but the reason it jumped was because they couldnt link it, because that other case lied.
Bloomfield said yesterday and today were crunch days, why would these people identified form last Monday or Tuesday not get tested until today or tomorrow?
Seriously? If it was me, I'd have been down the testing station the moment I knew I was a close contact.
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Here it is (article published on the 2nd): Covid-19 coronavirus: The people who hold the key out of lockdown won't be tested until tomorrow
When I couldn't find it again I wondered if I'd imagined it
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@donsteppa shit, I didnt realise it was Friday this guy was at the gym last, thought it was like Tuesday/Wednesday!
Crazy shit!
So in theory they all get tested yesterday, surely MOH push those through as urgent tests so results come today, to add to the new set of locations and contacts if any test positive?
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa shit, I didnt realise it was Friday this guy was at the gym last, thought it was like Tuesday/Wednesday!
Crazy shit!
So in theory they all get tested yesterday, surely MOH push those through as urgent tests so results come today, to add to the new set of locations and contacts if any test positive?
I guess so, 1pm looks like being a fairly significant press conference to find out where things are at.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
@donsteppa but the reason it jumped was because they couldnt link it, because that other case lied.
Bloomfield said yesterday and today were crunch days, why would these people identified form last Monday or Tuesday not get tested until today or tomorrow?
Seriously? If it was me, I'd have been down the testing station the moment I knew I was a close contact.
At our clinic some casual contacts rolled up days too early and even if they got tested were told to return for the second test at the optimal time
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@majorrage said in Coronavirus - New Zealand:
It's all down to insurance purposes. Basically a chain. They can't get insurance which means airlines won't allow them to fly (not SOP, Covid terms apparently). The reason they can't get insurance is due to official government guidance combined with their age & conditions etc.
Definitely not SOP as you say, and a bit strange to be honest. If you want to do anything in life without insurance you carry the risk - that's SOP for airlines and in the conditions of travel / cancellation policies, so quite surprising that they have changed that when they had it sorted anyway.
Air NZ have even offered their own insurance with covid cover.
"Eligibility
Policyholder must be a New Zealand citizen or resident.
Travel must originate in New Zealand."https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel-insurance
Is it just cost that is the issue, not that it can't be done?
Coronavirus - New Zealand