Coronavirus - China
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place.We didn't act early either, only a small handful did - mostly in Asia.
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback US didn't listen - for weeks and weeks. Too invested in their own political and trade war with China. Who I agree are not blameless - just saying.
Rubbish, the US was listening, unfortunately they were listening to the WHO who in turn was listening to the lies coming from China.
The US govt knew much more than what WHO was telling them, as did many countries. This is what intelligence networks and analysts do. The problem is when those they report to choose to downplay or ignore the threat assessments.
I believe there was a briefing in January raising high risk. A clear indication to start checking that crisis plans are in place.Read the above article. Nobody downplayed it or ignored it. Indeed the US govt blocked travel from Chna early and got called racists for it.
It is amazing how victim blaming is ok when the victim is the US and the perpetrator is China. -
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We did act early. You don't think that the very scenarios and actions we kicked in weren't being modelled and discussed some time back in case they were needed?
Yes, there were actions from the US and those crying 'racism' were uninformed or stupid. It was hardly a widespread outcry.
Where I refer to downplaying or ignoring advice I am referring to an attitude from the top that it wasn't going to be a big problem. The US hardly kicked into gear and started background planning and mobilisation. The article you quote also concedes that they haven't handled things well.As for China being dodgy? Quelle surprise. That is always taken into account when assessing official info from China.
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I increasingly suspect that if the full extent of the contagion of Covid-19 been known outside of China,in early January, things might have moved much more quickly everywhere.
Interesting that China was busy buying medical supplies internationally in that time frame (e.g. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/revealed-china-stockpiled-2-billion-face-masks-and-25m-medical-items/news-story/5304e5a5080bd4087e4a9be9de210b97)
China saw a “rapid growth in imports of commodities and key consumer goods” comprising 2.46 billion medical supply items.
These included masks, gloves, hand sanitiser, hazmat suits, ventilators and other materials.
The National Customs in China inspected the billions of items between January 24 and February 29, according to the report.
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@Donsteppa said in Coronavirus - China:
I increasingly suspect that if the full extent of the contagion of Covid-19 been known outside of China,in early January, things might have moved much more quickly everywhere.
Interesting that China was busy buying medical supplies internationally in that time frame (e.g. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/revealed-china-stockpiled-2-billion-face-masks-and-25m-medical-items/news-story/5304e5a5080bd4087e4a9be9de210b97)
China saw a “rapid growth in imports of commodities and key consumer goods” comprising 2.46 billion medical supply items.
These included masks, gloves, hand sanitiser, hazmat suits, ventilators and other materials.
The National Customs in China inspected the billions of items between January 24 and February 29, according to the report.
A huge amount of those were from the US... But NZ also sent some. For a producer of ppe to be importing it back is telling.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
15th January FFS....
Around the final week of January I talked to a good friend who is a specialist who works at Middlemore. He was shitting himself by then, had stories about how they were having to lock all their PPE up to stop people helping themselves because it was like a badly kept secret. He also told me of lots of other tidbits from within the medical community that they knew things were gone wrong in China. I'd like to think the government knew at least some of this intel and were well into preparations by then
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@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
15th January FFS....
Around the final week of January I talked to a good friend who is a specialist who works at Middlemore. He was shitting himself by then, had stories about how they were having to lock all their PPE up to stop people helping themselves because it was like a badly kept secret. He also told me of lots of other tidbits from within the medical community that they knew things were bad. I'd like to think the government knew at least some of this intel and were well into preparations by then
It was alreadyto late for widespread carnage to stop by Jan 15th... thanks to Chinese lies.
Not sure what relevance your anecdote has... -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
@canefan said in Coronavirus - China:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
15th January FFS....
Around the final week of January I talked to a good friend who is a specialist who works at Middlemore. He was shitting himself by then, had stories about how they were having to lock all their PPE up to stop people helping themselves because it was like a badly kept secret. He also told me of lots of other tidbits from within the medical community that they knew things were bad. I'd like to think the government knew at least some of this intel and were well into preparations by then
It was alreadyto late for widespread carnage to stop by Jan 15th... thanks to Chinese lies.
Not sure what relevance your anecdote has...Just that. Anecdotal.
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@Kirwan said in Coronavirus - China:
We certainly didn’t act early Crucial. We took too long to close the border or to start wider testing.
It was clear there was a huge problem in other countries and we let in travellers from those very countries.
There are certainly things that we probably wish we had done differently in hindsight but we were also getting ready for the worst from very early days which meant that when we did kick into gear quite a bit had been worked through.
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To the point of the thread title though, yes China have been dodgy and tried to keep a lid on things.
I guess my point is that most governments are well aware how China operate and it is up to them to make calls for their own citizens. Implying that they were blind to risk because of China’s actions and have been duped into failing to act is a stretch. -
@Crucial in hindsight it is easy to say we should have could have done this or that, but this has still happened hugely quickly...I mean 14 days ago, I had just returned from school camp, and things had started to take a serious turn:
15/03 - first round of travel restrictions imposed (however soft they seemed)
19/03 - further restrictions on our borders
26/03 - NZ in lockdown
03/04 - todayI am sure every Government, given the chance would do things differently, but we are where we are now, on the surface, in a much better position than most of the rest of the world IMO.
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@taniwharugby said in Coronavirus - China:
@Crucial in hindsight it is easy to say we should have could have done this or that, but this has still happened hugely quickly...I mean 14 days ago, I had just returned from school camp, and things had started to take a serious turn:
15/03 - first round of travel restrictions imposed (however soft they seemed)
19/03 - further restrictions on our borders
26/03 - NZ in lockdown
03/04 - todayI am sure every Government, given the chance would do things differently, but we are where we are now, on the surface, in a much better position than most of the rest of the world IMO.
The speed that things escalated was amazing. We got an email to say that we had to restrict our services and 24 hours later we were being shut down. But thinking about what Crucial said, China and the US are what I would consider the world's super powers right now. It would seem unlikely that intelligence organs of the US weren't aware that something was going on, seeing as it is their business to keep tabs on the situation inside their rival's camp
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@Crucial said in Coronavirus - China:
To the point of the thread title though, yes China have been dodgy and tried to keep a lid on things.
I guess my point is that most governments are well aware how China operate and it is up to them to make calls for their own citizens. Implying that they were blind to risk because of China’s actions and have been duped into failing to act is a stretch.Knowing they are dodgy is one thing, them hiding a pandemic is another. And that doesnt even take into account the WHO failing vcomp,etey and just acitng ike Chinas bitch.
Serious question.. why would any country contribute to the WHO after this? What actual value have they added considering the HUGE budget they get. Would the world be any worse off if they just didn't exist during this crisis?
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in Coronavirus - China:
Very interesting if that becomes the truth. I have seen articles explaining how it is very unlikely that Covid-19 is manufactured though, on the basis of the analysis of the virus itself. It is way too organic to be designed (or something like that)