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@salacious-crumb said in US Politics:
I am certain that there are many black conservatives who feel like gays “hiding in the closet.” They have major celebrities telling them they have to stay in their lane, and any independent thought could make them being perceived as a race-traitor. So they don’t stick their necks out.
So while the opinion of a celebrity and entertainer won’t likely move-or-change any votes, in the case of KW his actions could have an impact because of his ongoing message, which isn’t really about MAGA or Donald, it’s about thinking for yourself. And so some young black Americans are going to see West publicly sticking his neck out when he has a LOT to lose in the current climate, and they’ll see courage, they’ll see a man who may be crazy but has a fearlessness to follow his own convictions, and he’ll help chip away at their fears.
Agree. The Trump thing is a bit of a sideshow. I'll bet they hate each other before the year is out. But, as you say, his principal message seems to be about thinking and acting for yourself and not being bogged down by group think and victimhood. That's a debate any community should be allowed to have.
As a side note I read some of this John Legend's twitter stuff. He is more unhinged than KW could ever be. Trump embraces white supremacy apparently. I see also he plays the lead role in Jesus Christ Superstar. Must have missed that amid all the howls of outrage at a black man playing the part of a Jew. Or not.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@salacious-crumb said in US Politics:
I am certain that there are many black conservatives who feel like gays “hiding in the closet.” They have major celebrities telling them they have to stay in their lane, and any independent thought could make them being perceived as a race-traitor. So they don’t stick their necks out.
So while the opinion of a celebrity and entertainer won’t likely move-or-change any votes, in the case of KW his actions could have an impact because of his ongoing message, which isn’t really about MAGA or Donald, it’s about thinking for yourself. And so some young black Americans are going to see West publicly sticking his neck out when he has a LOT to lose in the current climate, and they’ll see courage, they’ll see a man who may be crazy but has a fearlessness to follow his own convictions, and he’ll help chip away at their fears.
Agree. The Trump thing is a bit of a sideshow. I'll bet they hate each other before the year is out. But, as you say, his principal message seems to be about thinking and acting for yourself and not being bogged down by group think and victimhood. That's a debate any community should be allowed to have.
Is this not applicable the other way as well? Why do Trump supporters continue to act and speak as if they are a put upon minority? As Donald himself says 'read the scoreboard!' (or words to that effect).
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@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@salacious-crumb said in US Politics:
I am certain that there are many black conservatives who feel like gays “hiding in the closet.” They have major celebrities telling them they have to stay in their lane, and any independent thought could make them being perceived as a race-traitor. So they don’t stick their necks out.
So while the opinion of a celebrity and entertainer won’t likely move-or-change any votes, in the case of KW his actions could have an impact because of his ongoing message, which isn’t really about MAGA or Donald, it’s about thinking for yourself. And so some young black Americans are going to see West publicly sticking his neck out when he has a LOT to lose in the current climate, and they’ll see courage, they’ll see a man who may be crazy but has a fearlessness to follow his own convictions, and he’ll help chip away at their fears.
Agree. The Trump thing is a bit of a sideshow. I'll bet they hate each other before the year is out. But, as you say, his principal message seems to be about thinking and acting for yourself and not being bogged down by group think and victimhood. That's a debate any community should be allowed to have.
Is this not applicable the other way as well? Why do Trump supporters continue to act and speak as if they are a put upon minority? As Donald himself says 'read the scoreboard!' (or words to that effect).
There is certainly a case for that and is a talking point amongst many anti sjw groups.
The difference here specifically is between being a fan of Trump and being a fan of Jordan Peterson. Jordan is very anti Victimhood as is a lot of conservative thinkers like Candace Owens. Trump..well I'm not so sure, he seems to play both the victim and the anti-victim card.
It's also a perception vs reality thing which is hard to know for sure. If you look at polls and the far majority of media reports then it appears that Trump appreciation is a minority whereas the only reality is the actual election result. Then again that reality was also completely unexpected due to apparent poll and media bias so Trump fans do have a bit of a case, maybe not with the number of supporters however.
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@crucial said in US Politics:
Why do Trump supporters continue to act and speak as if they are a put upon minority?
Try paying more attention to the establishment culture, news programs, late night comedy shows in the United States. Trump-supporters are punching bags. People wearing MAGA hats get assaulted in public, and mainstream media yawns, they won’t report it, “because it’s okay to punch a Nazi.” The scoreboard Trump points to are his numbers of job growth, GDP, and his voters, and they’re sick & tired getting crapped on daily In the media as low-brow knuckle-dragging racists, and they’re right to be sick of it because the caricature is horseshit.
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@crucial said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
@salacious-crumb said in US Politics:
I am certain that there are many black conservatives who feel like gays “hiding in the closet.” They have major celebrities telling them they have to stay in their lane, and any independent thought could make them being perceived as a race-traitor. So they don’t stick their necks out.
So while the opinion of a celebrity and entertainer won’t likely move-or-change any votes, in the case of KW his actions could have an impact because of his ongoing message, which isn’t really about MAGA or Donald, it’s about thinking for yourself. And so some young black Americans are going to see West publicly sticking his neck out when he has a LOT to lose in the current climate, and they’ll see courage, they’ll see a man who may be crazy but has a fearlessness to follow his own convictions, and he’ll help chip away at their fears.
Agree. The Trump thing is a bit of a sideshow. I'll bet they hate each other before the year is out. But, as you say, his principal message seems to be about thinking and acting for yourself and not being bogged down by group think and victimhood. That's a debate any community should be allowed to have.
Is this not applicable the other way as well? Why do Trump supporters continue to act and speak as if they are a put upon minority? As Donald himself says 'read the scoreboard!' (or words to that effect).
No.
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The wife frequents some of the more "black" dominated forums etc, and there's a lot of African-Americans saying they love Candace's work and that she's opened their eyes to a different way of thinking since Kanye tweeted about her - not so much about Donald but the anti-victimhood stuff that the left relies so heavily upon. Is that representative of the wider population? Who knows, but Kanye's stance has definitely sparked an online debate which is great to see.
Groupthink is a massive problem among African-Americans, and in fact many minority groups in the west around the world. It's not normal for a group of people to vote 90%+ one way on the political spectrum, and there's a lot of thought policing going on within those groups. John Legend's messages to Kanye was exactly that - though many people are far less respectful and hurl all sorts of racist insults and threats to anyone that steps out of line. Just ask Larry Elder.
I'm far from a Kanye fan, though some of his work is outstanding (Gold digger!), but the way he's putting focus on independant thought and pushing back against the toxic victimhood mentality, which only leads to resentment, is absolutely awesome.
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@no-quarter said in US Politics:
The wife frequents some of the more "black" dominated forums etc, and there's a lot of African-Americans saying they love Candace's work and that she's opened their eyes to a different way of thinking since Kanye tweeted about her - not so much about Donald but the anti-victimhood stuff that the left relies so heavily upon. Is that representative of the wider population? Who knows, but Kanye's stance has definitely sparked an online debate which is great to see.
I think there is a wider movement which is the push back against progressivism.
Sure some Trump supporters make up a subset of that group but it is bigger than just them. Its a weird coalition of some Trump supporters, libertarians, conservative never Trumpers, politically disinterested people who care about cultural/speech restrictions and even some traditional leftists
The way the progressives are fighting it is via guilt by association. Everyone in that loose coalition is called a Trump supporter.. which of course is the same as far right.. which is the same as a nazi.. nazis should be de-platformed.. nazis should be punched..
The more the push back comes from unusual or non traditional sources the better.
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Rubin said 2018 would be the year of strange alliances and he's been proved pretty damn right. People are just done to death of progressive sjw culture. From comments on stuff articles to Kanye joining Trump and a conservative perspective. Shit is changing.
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Interesting read published in The Hill today:
From the Middle East to Korea, Trump has been the transformational president
[...]
Whether it’s Korea, the Middle East, China or here at home, President Trump has transformed realities that “the experts” considered immutable.
[...]
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@reprobate said in US Politics:
People saying celebrity status doesn't matter in the age of trump. Riiight. If he had been a nobody saying the things he's said, would he be president now?
It is not just what he said, it was how he said it.
And had wedges of cash to kick things off.
But most importantly. .. I think most of his target voters saw him as a businessmen, not a celebrity.
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@baron-silas-greenback said in US Politics:
@reprobate said in US Politics:
People saying celebrity status doesn't matter in the age of trump. Riiight. If he had been a nobody saying the things he's said, would he be president now?
It is not just what he said, it was how he said it.
And had wedges of cash to kick things off.
But most importantly. .. I think most of his target voters saw him as a businessmen, not a celebrity.
Celebrity businessman, as opposed to businessman?
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I see that Guiliani, now Trump's legal aide, has come out on Fox News to say Trump did repay the $130K to his lawyer to compensate for the Stormy Danielle hush money.
I'm not sure that this will overly harm Trump as he's been pretty Teflon coated against this sort of stuff. Though it seems it is the spectre of the original payment by the lawyer as constituting an illegal campaign donation that some of the MSM are majoring on. Not sure that has any legs TBH.
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So here's one for Fake News on the starbucks racism debacle.
Notice the difference in the content of these two articles.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/black-men-arrested-starbucks-settle-200k-program-54882092
The narrative is these poor innocent men were unfairly racially vilified yet magnanimously offered to settle for only $1.00 each and instead put the real money to a youth program....
The reality is they refused to purchase goods or services at a cafe and per store policy could not use the bathrooms without a purchase. They refused to leave when asked thereby breaking the law. The police were called and despite asking multiple times still refused to leave forcing their arrest (also verbally abusing the police in doing so). They were released with no charge because the store decided the colour of their skin meant the law shouldnt apply to them so dropped charges. The city also decided that being 'black' was above the law so apologised for their lawful arrest. Starbucks has paid then an undisclosed (no doubt enormous) settlement and the city topped that up by $2.00 and a youth program which media are latching on to in order to continue the lovely narrative and make these professional-victims and law breakers the fucken heroes.
Unbelievable...
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@catogrande said in US Politics:
I see that Guiliani, now Trump's legal aide, has come out on Fox News to say Trump did repay the $130K to his lawyer to compensate for the Stormy Danielle hush money.
I'm not sure that this will overly harm Trump as he's been pretty Teflon coated against this sort of stuff. Though it seems it is the spectre of the original payment by the lawyer as constituting an illegal campaign donation that some of the MSM are majoring on. Not sure that has any legs TBH.
BBC bullshit. Ignoring the context and actual detail at the same time. Guilani worded it very carefully. ... and not how BBC represented it.
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@rembrandt said in US Politics:
So here's one for Fake News on the starbucks racism debacle.
Notice the difference in the content of these two articles.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/black-men-arrested-starbucks-settle-200k-program-54882092
The narrative is these poor innocent men were unfairly racially vilified yet magnanimously offered to settle for only $1.00 each and instead put the real money to a youth program....
The reality is they refused to purchase goods or services at a cafe and per store policy could not use the bathrooms without a purchase. They refused to leave when asked thereby breaking the law. The police were called and despite asking multiple times still refused to leave forcing their arrest (also verbally abusing the police in doing so). They were released with no charge because the store decided the colour of their skin meant the law shouldnt apply to them so dropped charges. The city also decided that being 'black' was above the law so apologised for their lawful arrest. Starbucks has paid then an undisclosed (no doubt enormous) settlement and the city topped that up by $2.00 and a youth program which media are latching on to in order to continue the lovely narrative and make these professional-victims and law breakers the fucken heroes.
Unbelievable...
Madness. Did you see the video of the guy (black) who just walked into a Starbucks demanding a free coffee and got one? This whole situation is insane.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
Madness. Did you see the video of the guy (black) who just walked into a Starbucks demanding a free coffee and got one? This whole situation is insane.
That's Hotep Jesus. The hotep movement is a bit odd. The more extreme end of it is very derogatory to other blacks. The moderate end is a bit like the nation of islam minus the islam. It's a tiny movement though.
But the guy was making fun of the BLM movement -
@duluth said in US Politics:
@rancid-schnitzel said in US Politics:
Madness. Did you see the video of the guy (black) who just walked into a Starbucks demanding a free coffee and got one? This whole situation is insane.
That's Hotep Jesus. The hotep movement is a bit odd. The more extreme end of it is very derogatory to other blacks. The moderate end is a bit like the nation of islam minus the islam. It's a tiny movement though.
But the guy was making fun of the BLM movementThis one:
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@rembrandt how long were they there? No info on that in either article - I'll have another hunt but I caught on reddit (yes, I know!) that they'd been there for a pretty short period of time. That's a key bit of info in regards to whether they were loittering or had only been there briefly before being asked to leave. Either way it does sound like they were abrasive in their reaction, and haven't been slouches in taking advantage of the situation.
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